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Flu pandemic threat still real says Harvard professor - Telegraph

Giuseppe

Emeritus
Flu pandemic threat still real says Harvard professor - Telegraph
Flu pandemic threat still real says Harvard professor

The threat of a major flu pandemic has not gone away and if it is caused by a strains other than H5N1 avian influenza then scientists will not be able to combat it, a Harvard professor has warned.


By Rebecca Smith, Medical Editor
Last Updated: 2:22PM GMT 20 Feb 2009

Prof Thomas Monath said despite the worldwide economic downturn, preparations need to be stepped up if there is to be any hope of preventing millions of deaths in a pandemic.


He also warned that research efforts have been focused on the H5N1 flu which has infected 407 people and killed 254, but that another strain could trigger a pandemic and then "we would be screwed".

He said vaccine manufacturing capacity is insufficient meaning if a pandemic strain of flu emerged now it would be impossible to make enough vaccine for the world's population in time.

It is thought the H5N1 avian flu is the most likely to spark a pandemic by changing its make-up so it can spread easily between humans.

However, he said that, as the virus has been around for 13 years, complacency about how to deal with any outbreak has crept in, he warned.

There are several H5N1 vaccines that are licensed or near to being licensed but producing enough of them in a pandemic is still a problem.

"And that is if the pandemic is caused by H5N1, if its not we are screwed," Prof Monath said.

"If it's a new strain of flu it will be nine months to a year before we have got really good geared up vaccine production. We will rely on antiviral drugs first and then it is a crash effort to make a vaccine. In the meantime there will be clearly an emerging uncontained problem," he said.

"To detect it early and try to contain it in the early stages is the best chance we have got," Prof Monath added.

Prof Monath was speaking at the International Meeting on Emerging Diseases and Surveillance in Vienna, Austria.

He said there needs to be more political will and investment to scale up vaccine manufacturing capacity and develop new treatments against flu and vaccines against a pandemic.

"These viruses are smart. The risk has not gone away and we cannot let our guard down. We may be better prepared than when H5N1 first appeared but we are still clearly insufficiently prepared."

Other experts at the meeting also believe the scientific community is 'betting on the wrong horse' by continuing to focus only on H5N1.

Influenza expert Ilaria Capua said a pandemic could come from a number of flu strains.

"H5N1 may become a new pandemic but we are taking our eye of other avian flu strains which have infected humans such as H7 and H9 and historically humans have been infected with H1, H2 and H3," she said.

Ms Capua, who is director of the National Reference Library for Avian Influenza in Italy, warned that other strains such as H9 could cause a pandemic, although it is not as lethal but could still cause major disruption.

"If one in four of your population fell ill in cycles of four to six weeks then that could slow down the economy, swamp the hospitals and have major implications for day to day life," she said.

At the moment she said there was more chance of being struck by lightning than from catching H5N1 in western Europe.

"Emerging diseases are going to come and intensive research and surveillance in animals will be key to finding them early and we are practising that with H5N1 but we are still not very good at it," she said.
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<cite cite="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/4734403/Flu-pandemic-threat-still-real-says-Harvard-professor.html">Flu pandemic threat still real says Harvard professor - Telegraph</cite>
 
Re: Flu pandemic threat still real says Harvard professor - Telegraph

"And that is if the pandemic is caused by H5N1, if its not we are screwed," Prof Monath said.

"If it's a new strain of flu it will be nine months to a year before we have got really good geared up vaccine production. We will rely on antiviral drugs first and then it is a crash effort to make a vaccine. In the meantime there will be clearly an emerging uncontained problem," he said.
Statements such as this are, in many ways, rather unfortunate.

Avian influenza viruses are not all created equal. H9 causes asymptomatic, or very mild illness for the nearly all known human cases. The study conducted on DNR officers and hunters (small sample IIRC) showed they were sero-positive for several avian influenza viruses, however none remembered a significant ILI.

We could have a pandemic from a very mild strain of AI and the world will yawn and laugh at all the hullabaloo that had been raised over these years regarding H5N1. Meanwhile, H5N1 would likely still be "out there" circulating and a threat to human health. Should this unlikely, but not impossible, chain of events happen, how seriously would the public then take the threat of an AI pandemic? Far less seriously than the threat is taken now, and that's not very serious to begin with.
 
Re: Flu pandemic threat still real says Harvard professor - Telegraph

Thank you SophiaZoe. As I was reading the article I was mentally preparing a response but you have saved me the trouble of writing it. Virulence and the HP nature of HPAI H5N1 make it a threat of a quite different order to some of the other pandemic flu candidates. If you have a virus that the vast majority of people can catch without a major chance of death or being permanently disabled then only the high risk groups need high tech medical attention, for the rest of us it is bed, rest & plenty of fluids. The real problem comes if catching it has odds like playing Russian Roulette (significantly better than those for the unfortunates who have caught it so far). What do you do, hide out until the vaccine comes? As things are this is going to be years so our only option is we are all going to have to put the gun to our heads and pull the trigger.
I am sorry to be so negative but without a system to rapidly manufacture large quantities of vaccine in a short time there is only one way to become immune to a pandemic strain - catch it.
The only threats I am aware of with the potential to wipe out large chunks of the worlds population and vastly reduce their living standards are Global Thermonuclear War, Meteor Strikes, Super Volcanoes and and an H5N1 flu pandemic. The only one of those that has a moderately high risk of actually happening is the last; it is also the easiest and cheapest to do something about.

As I keep finding myself posting the same arguments I have pasted some links below to posts & threads in which I have tried to expand on and explain my reasoning.

Pandemic Economic estimates & why they are wrong.
http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=83269
Argues that virulence is so variable our planning estimates are too dogmatic about the ranges of consequences. Posts #1 & 9



Re: Economic chaos will kill more than pandemic, expert warns
http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/sho...t=72505&page=2
Post #53 looks at the differences for an emerging pandemic virus now and in 1918 and covers the virulence problem and the structural changes which might make things worse JIT, urbanisation etc.


Study challenges notion of 'pandemic' flu
http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=64074
Al starts the thread with a critique of the Doshi paper but my posts cover HP vs. LP and the dangers of extrapolation from a small data set n=3 again.


This last one is not mine (it is a lot better than that).

EDITORIAL COMMENTARY Planning for an Influenza Pandemic: Thinking beyond the Virus Jonathan A. McCullers
http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77442
This commentary from the paper in J Inf Dis: Predominant Role of Bacterial Pneumonia as a Cause of Death in Pandemic Influenza: Implications for Pandemic Influenza Preparedness is brilliant. Covers 1890=1918 both mainly secondary pneumonia. H5N1 primary pneumonia. Antibiotic stockpile and distribution analysis, n=3.
 
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Re: Flu pandemic threat still real says Harvard professor - Telegraph

My thanks to you as well. Your post is extremely well stated. I especially "connected" with your analogy of Russian Roulette. Fair warning: I'm probably going to steal it in the near future ;) . Seriously, it really did "grab" me as an analogy, and I believe it expresses the current odds of surviving an H5N1 infection as the virus currently exists in ways not conveyed by the terminology "~60% CFR".

After all... how many sane, rational, reasonably intelligent sentient beings would take a revolver, spin the cylinder loaded with one bullet, then place that weapon to their temple and pull the trigger? Yet, there is statistically a far greater chance of surviving that bit of insanity than H5N1 currently.

Additionally, it brings to the forefront of considerations: risk aversion vs. toleration. We are generally not very risk tolerant in our day-to-day lives, and without that effective and available vaccine we will have to be one or the other.

I believe it is helpful to frame H5N1 PanFlu in a way that people can relate to, unfortunately only our elders of today [in developed nations] remember what it is really like to live with the threats of life threatening infectious diseases on a "day-to-day" basis, where every sniffle might have been the first sign of something that would end fatally.

Yes, a wonderful "visual frame"... thank you.
 
Re: Flu pandemic threat still real says Harvard professor - Telegraph

H9 causes asymptomatic, or very mild illness for the nearly all known human cases

While that's true for the currently circulating H9s, can we really guarantee that it wouldn't reassort with H5N1 and pick up the HP mutations? or develop them on its own, as H5 did?

I believe H5 and H7 are the only AIs to develope multiple amino acids at the cleavage site. Is there any reason to believe H9s will remain similar to the current versions, and only pose a threat as a novel antigen?

.
 
Re: Flu pandemic threat still real says Harvard professor - Telegraph

Apparently H7s can behave somewhat differently, given multiple amino acids at the cleavage site.
see: http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=296076

In H7 subtype viruses, five or more basic amino acids would likely result in a phenotype for high pathogenicity (15). Importantly, all of the LBM-lineage H7N2 isolates that have been characterized, even those with four basic amino acids, have been of low pathogenicity in chickens (data not shown).

.
 
Re: Flu pandemic threat still real says Harvard professor - Telegraph

I remember reading a paper that proposed that the physical structure near the cleavage site controlled which influenzas could accomodate the multiple amino acids. it would apply to H9s. Was that here? Anyone have the link?

.
 
Re: Flu pandemic threat still real says Harvard professor - Telegraph

We don't know enough to be able to predict the clinical symptoms any reassortment might cause. What is becoming apparent is that when avian influenzas jump the species barrier and cause zoonotic infections the symptoms are extremely variable and range from being so mild the patient was unaware they had been ill through conjunctivites to ARDS and multi-organ failure.
When H1N1 hit in 1918 it obviously came as quite a shock that you could get a flu with such a high CFR and since that time it has been view as something of an aberrant spike. HP AI H5N1 - along with the varied mild symptoms already mentioned - has forced us to re-evaluate the range of possible flu symptoms and more specifically reclassify H1N1(1918) as possibly just being mid-range. Now we must pray H5N1 is as bad as it can get and that should it go pandemic this will be attended by a precipitious drop in CFR.
 
Re: Flu pandemic threat still real says Harvard professor - Telegraph

AD as I know you know the HP classification is based on the polybasic cleavage site and is normally attended by a high mortality rate in chickens. In humans the HP nature of the infection leads to a much wider range of host proteases being able to cleave the HA which in turn causes extended tissue tropism. It does not necessarily lead to increased virulence. Two poultry workers who were infected in the Canadian HPAI H7N3 outbreak (it actually started as LP and went HP in the poultry shed) had only fairly mild symptoms. HPAI H5N1 unfortunately has the worst of both worlds high virulence in humans and extended tissue tropism leading to the possibility of multi-organ infection.<o:p></o:p>
 
Re: Flu pandemic threat still real says Harvard professor - Telegraph

I think professor Monath was not minimizing pandemic influenza threat.

He - and others - pointed out the likelihood of a non-H5N1 pandemic strain.

Most of the H9N2 avian influenza viruses in Asia - especially in China - widely circulates and reassortments with human and other animal viruses sometimes occur, as some papers described in Scientific Library.

So, H9N2 is a good ''candidate'' for a pandemic: further, it has been observed as this subtype possesses human-like hemagglutinin receptors, so humans may be more at danger in high-density poultry environment.

Nobody can predict exactly the case-fatality rate of the next influenza pandemic; thus is vital a strategic political perspective and policy toward the development of either broad-spectrum vaccines and improved treatment regimens.

Clearly, veterinarian and financial assistance are needed for developing countries NOW while poultry stocks are collapsing under zoonotic threat by H5N1 and other strains.

To date, it is almost impossible to predict whether current H5N1 case-fatality rate will be similar to the future H5N1-like pandemic virus.

Although several and sound scientific works were done, most remains to be clarified for explain pathogenesis and viral mechanism underlying high case fatality rate observed in human case of H5N1.

Further, it remains to be asciertained because some - the most part - of people exposed to this virus remains asymptomatic or not infected even with prolonged and close contact with live poultry and animals.

We should emphasize the need of a renewed political interest in pandemic preparedness policies and in addressing scientific community toward the remaining unresolved questions about avian influenza, human and pandemic influenza ecological, virological and pathological issues.
 
Re: Flu pandemic threat still real says Harvard professor - Telegraph

AD as I know you know the HP classification is based on the polybasic cleavage site and is normally attended by a high mortality rate in chickens. In humans the HP nature of the infection leads to a much wider range of host proteases being able to cleave the HA which in turn causes extended tissue tropism. It does not necessarily lead to increased virulence. Two poultry workers who were infected in the Canadian HPAI H7N3 outbreak (it actually started as LP and went HP in the poultry shed) had only fairly mild symptoms. HPAI H5N1 unfortunately has the worst of both world high virulence in humans and extended tissue tropism leading to the possibility of multi-organ infection.<o:p></o:p>

It could be interesting to address other questions about past pandemic viruses: why did 1889/90 strain affect brain and cause severe neurological sequelae; why did ''spanish flu'' cause often same brain damages even after several years from complete infection recovery?

HA cleavage site doesn't explain in full these 1889/90 and 1918 features, so other mechanism should be investigated.

I recalled my grandmother stories about ''Nona'' fever (1889/90 pandemic) when people fell ill and in few hours remained ''frozen'' or with flaccid paralysis or comatose before death.
 
Re: Flu pandemic threat still real says Harvard professor - Telegraph

Influenza is one of those subjects that exemplifies the "circle of Knowledge" ..... "the more we know the more we know we don't know."

;)

.
 
Re: Flu pandemic threat still real says Harvard professor - Telegraph

"real" means - how many % probability ?

vaccine in 9-12 months is not, what most experts say (4-6 months)

was there ever a human pandemic
or epizootic in mammals in H5,H7,H9 ?

Without feeding them infected meat, natural infection
and spread.

I think, they should test it in a closed setting if they
can create a strain which causes an outbreak in ferrets
or such.
 
Re: Flu pandemic threat still real says Harvard professor - Telegraph

I think professor Monath was not minimizing pandemic influenza threat.

He - and others - pointed out the likelihood of a non-H5N1 pandemic strain.

I do not disagree with him that H5N1 is the only or most likely flu pandemic candidate. Based on the H7N7 outbreak in the Netherlands I think this has shown the most 'promise'. Where we differ is on the
another strain could trigger a pandemic and then "we would be screwed".
For me Danger=Probability*Consequence

I can not say what would happen to virulence or clinical symptoms at the moment an avian strain becomes a pandemic strain in humans. All I can do is assume they may be similar to those in the pre-pandemic form. In this case I would take an H7N7 pandemic with no vaccine over an H5N1 pandemic with some vaccine any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

IOH the paper you posted that I linked to in post #3 (bottom link) argued that 1890 and 1918 (both LP strains) caused death primarily by secondary pneumonia by opportunistic bacterial infection and had we had antibiotics at the time many could have been saved. It goes on to argue that gross pathology of HPAI H5N1 victims shows primary viral pneumonia due to massive tissue damage, presumably caused by excessive immune response, to have caused death and, unfortunately, now we have antibiotics they probably would not have helped. I linked to the thread because I was so impressed by Jonathan A. McCuller?s commentary (post #2) but the full paper is also worth a read. I would hate anyone to read this and think I was not advocating stockpiling of antibiotics. For those who get through the primary pneumonia phase it does not preclude a bacterial secondary pneumonia in fact the tissue damage caused probably increases it.

IMO too much emphasis has been put on pharmaceutical intervention. Within that field too much emphasis is on Tamiflu stockpiling. For the record I thing this should be rebalanced with Relenza, a mix of the relatively cheap older ion blockers, pneumovax and antibiotics. While the ion blockers readily develop resistance used as a combination therapy with Tamiflu I believe they will delay the inevitable Tamiflu resistance. Pneumovax should help with the emergence of secondary pneumonia and antibiotics with any opportunistic bacterial infections. This leaves the overstretched health services to do what they can for primary pneumonia cases and all the other non flu related ailments that didn?t realise there was a pandemic on. More lives are likely to be saved by hand washing, simple social distancing and basic preps like bleach and some simple food stuffs than modern drugs or hospitals. IMO the most useful of all tools is knowledge; if more people understood the risks and options that would lead to a far better prepared world and a much less catastrophic pandemic regardless of the infectious agent.
 
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Re: Flu pandemic threat still real says Harvard professor - Telegraph

should we give antibiotics prophylactically in a pandemic ?

erase (asymptomatic) pneumonia bacteria before panflu comes, is it possible ?
 
Re: Flu pandemic threat still real says Harvard professor - Telegraph

should we give antibiotics prophylactically in a pandemic ?

erase (asymptomatic) pneumonia bacteria before panflu comes, is it possible ?

GS,

This question was addressed at the IDSA conference at the beginning of this month. Although most available data is now pretty "stale", there is no indication that prophylactic antibiotics would be helpful. Given the general concern about inappropriate use of antibiotics in general, official recommendations are still to only administer antibiotics when testing indicates an active bacterial infection.

Despite statistical analysis of length of days between illness onset and death, bacterial pneumonia is still not seen as a factor by the scientists who attended the conference, however, again, the data is "stale". The concern brought up at the conference was: how do we prevent... or discourage... the wholesale use of antibiotics by doctors. Overturning "popular belief" in their efficacy... even though the science [such as it is at this time] and the small number of clinical case histories available do not [at this time] support such usage.

PanFlu will not exist in a "bubble": there are other infectious diseases that will need to be accounted for. MRSA and tuberculosis are but two of the top concerns. If we utilize antibiotics inappropriately, will we unleash yet another scourge upon public health? Although I am not a medical professional, their concern makes sense to me.

But then, I'm confident you already know at least as much about the issue as I do myself.... perhaps your question is rhetorical?
 
Re: Flu pandemic threat still real says Harvard professor - Telegraph

perhaps the problem mustn't be addressed in public
 
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