Feather removal machines as a vector??

[Treyfish]

...Influenza (of all types) becomes a real danger, however, when the virus mutates to a form easily transmitted between humans without any animal vector. Lately, there are signs this may be happening, and one vector facilitating human-to-human spread of the virus is as unexpected as it is common: poultry feather removal machines.

Poultry feather removal machines are commonly used to pluck freshly slaughtered chickens, ducks and geese at China's urban live poultry markets. To prepare birds for customers, market sellers spin them in machines into which hot water is added. The tubs then spin at high speeds, quickly and efficiently plucking the feathers. But the trouble is that droplets of steam and spray emanating from the machines could carry H7N9 bird flu viruses directly into the lungs of sellers, customers, and anyone else in the area. "If there is a virus, it can be easily inhaled this way," explained Feng Zijian, director of the emergency response center of the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention, in a recent briefing with Chinese reporters.

"This is what we suspect to be a major environmental exposure that causes human infections." Once inhaled into the lungs of one human, a simple cough, sneeze or sigh could release the virus into society time and time again, far from the nearest infected chicken.

Large poultry feather removal machines are mainly employed by commercial poultry producers in Western countries, whereas in China, much smaller machines are a common feature at the live poultry markets where the majority of Chinese consumers buy their poultry. Should these machines be positively identified as an influenza transmission vector, the resulting disruption to China's food distribution system would be massive, to say the least.

For a photo of the machine, see:
http://inventorspot.com/files/images/04_8.img_assist_custom.jpg.
:tiphat:
http://www.promedmail.org/direct.php?id=20130504.1690089

 

[AnnaLisa]

Re: Feather removal machines as a vector??

This thought occurred to me a while ago. We hand pluck when we butcher a chicken at our small farm. One still has to dunk the carcass in hot water to loosen the feathers, so water is involved, but it isn't aerosolized as in the machines. I have always wondered about those plucking machines aerosolizing whatnot all over. I didn't know they used those in China, but, yes, I would think that those machines would cause a good deal of aerosol.

 

[mixin]

Re: Feather removal machines as a vector??

I found a video of a girl de-feathering live francolins by hand for customers. The birds are flapping their wings while she continues to strip them of their skin, feathers, heads, etc. As you can see, there is another woman selling what appears to be veggies right next to her, with feathers and blood littering the area between them. These wet markets must be an absolute hotbed of a large variety of nasties.

I must say I'm appalled at the thought of skinning things alive; she did smash one bird's head on the cement to stun it.

With sensitivities in mind, I won't post the link to the actual video but a search can quickly find it. Here is a screen cap from it.



I see in Pathfinder's post that they found H7N9 in quail; I wonder if they de-feather those in the same manner.

The source of human infection is still under investigation, but the avian influenza A(H7N9) virus has been isolated from healthy ducks, pigeons, chickens, and quail in live bird markets in Shanghai and neighboring provinces.

http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=205231

 

[AlaskaDenise]

Re: Feather removal machines as a vector??

During the early phases of H5N1, girls plucking feathers from ?swans or geese in Azerbaijan for pillows, I think, became ill. See:

Persistence of Avian Influenza Virus (H5N1) in Feathers Detached from Bodies of Infected Domestic Ducks

.

 

[mixin]

Re: Feather removal machines as a vector??

I remember that; we had good discussion on it if I remember correctly.

From the ProMed article Treyfish linked:

"[If the described (plausible) theory is valid, infection rates among the personnel working with feather removal machines in the affected territories in eastern China should be significantly higher than among other population groups. Is this, indeed, the case? It will also be interesting to note whether the birds treated in the described machines have been tested and found ante-mortem to be infected. - Mod.AS]"

Is there some type of bird that the elderly keep as pets, that's raised on farms and sold as food that they haven't checked out yet?

 

[AnnaLisa]

Re: Feather removal machines as a vector??

Doing that to an animal while it is alive is cruelty. Awful. I have also read that in some regions, boiling fertile eggs right before the chick hatches is a delicacy.

Anyway, all this messing butchering is unnecessary. Chickens seem to get extremely calm when hanging upside down and the deed can be done very quickly with no flapping and ruckus. Then they should be dunked in hot water less than 180 degrees for just a minute or two, swished thru, and the feathers then come out easily, but YES, there would be aerosolizing even with the calmest hand plucking.

The machines are terrible. The dead chicken is bouncing all over and I believe they also spray out hot water. I'm not sure on that tho. It's almost like an open washing machine that just tosses the chicken all over. Rubber fingers defeather it.

Some people have taken to just skinning chickens to avoid this all together, and we may look at that method. We don't kill that many chickens because we mainly have a laying flock, but we have butchered extra roosters and we will have to do in our old hens. We were thinking of raising some meat birds, but, I will have to think about that yet.

Butchering meat next to a veggie stand....I really can't imagine that. Wow.

 

[AnnaLisa]

Re: Feather removal machines as a vector??

One more thing on the feathers. CAFOs dispose of feathers in different manners, but I believe Hopkins did a study on feathers they got from a waste area of some type, from near a CAFO to see what drugs the chickens were being fed.

Among them were Prozac, and illegal antibiotics. I don't know if they found Tamiflu.

I am wondering how many chicken feathers end up spread with manure over fields adjacent to the chicken CAFOs.

I also have grave concerns over the new practice of spaying irrigating with manure sludge. It's occurring near me, and it makes me sick to think of what they are aerosolizing for people to breathe.

 

[jeffrey]

Re: Feather removal machines as a vector??

So if you all have this great knowledge, then why is it not being looked at by all the withstanding agencies???? Do they not want to do this because it would be an economy issue? That has never crossed their minds?

There is something that someone knows and it will come out eventually!

 

[AnnaLisa]

Re: Feather removal machines as a vector??

I am sure the economy is a prime consideration.

 

[AnnaLisa]

Re: Feather removal machines as a vector??

Here is a summary of the Hopkins study.

http://www.jhsph.edu/news/news-releases/2012/feather-meal-clf.html

 

[gsgs]

Re: Feather removal machines as a vector??

put the machine in a plastic envelope
store the feathers in closed bags
disinfect
kill the animals before defeathering

buy canned chickens instead


if the machines were a vector, they should have found it.
From cases visiting the same market,same places where the machines are

 

[AlaskaDenise]

Re: Feather removal machines as a vector??

.........
Some people have taken to just skinning chickens to avoid this all together, ...........

I did that years ago - a nearby farm with laying hens was buying all new stock and offered neighbors the "retired" hens. I carefully skinned the bird, deboned the meat, then canned the results - the old tough birds were just fine and it wasn't all that messy.

.

 

[AlaskaDenise]

Re: Feather removal machines as a vector??

.......Is there some type of bird that the elderly keep as pets, that's raised on farms and sold as food that they haven't checked out yet?

I wonder if the old men pluck feathers for something like fishing lures??? or pillows, or ??? I recall a Qi Gong video where one of the old masters did "art" Qi Gong - using a large feather "pen" for his ink. Perhaps people doing traditional writing with the feather pen are more likely to get infected.

.

 

[kiwibird]

Re: Feather removal machines as a vector??

I have been told of a previous scam involving human hair being turned in to "fake soya sauce". It took 2 seconds to find this use for the protein in bird feathers -

Do not fake soy sauce, bean dregs even made ​​of bird feathers because the price is away, for you and your family's health, buy food, turn it over to take a look at the list of ingredients on the back of it.

Source:http://translate.google.co.uk/trans...8%90%E9%85%B1%E6%B2%B9&client=safari&hl=en-gb

Soy sauce taste the fundamental amino acids. If you do not go through a long period of fermentation, soy protein with hydrochloric acid decomposition method is readily available amino acids. Defatted soybean processing using extra virgin oil on it. And even some manufacturers in accordance with this principle is made of protein and amino acids, amino acids extracted from the bird's feathers. The amino acid thus obtained is the basis of manufacturing special sauce, it would lose the Original soy sauce flavor, fragrance, and color.

Source: http://translate.google.co.uk/trans...B2%B9&client=safari&hl=en-gb&biw=1024&bih=660

 

[mixin]

Re: Feather removal machines as a vector??

I know I'm going off topic with this; but this quote from the article that AnnaLisa linked to has me wondering how personal care products and caffeine could have gotten into chicken feathers.

researchers from the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health and Arizona State University analyzed commercially available feather meal samples, acquired from six U.S. states and China, for a suite of 59 pharmaceuticals and personal care products. All 12 samples tested had between 2 and 10 antibiotic residues. In addition to antimicrobials, 7 other personal care products, including the pain reliever acetaminophen (the active ingredient in Tylenol), the antihistamine diphenhydramine (the active ingredient in Benadryl) and the antidepressant fluoxetine (the active ingredient in Prozac), were detected.

Researchers also found caffeine in 10 of 12 feather meal samples. ?This study reveals yet another pathway of unwanted human exposure to a surprisingly broad spectrum of prescription and over-the-counter drugs,?

 

[gsgs]

Re: Feather removal machines as a vector??

soon some moderator puts this in the dungeon as tasteless

 

[AnnaLisa]

Re: Feather removal machines as a vector??

I know I'm going off topic with this; but this quote from the article that AnnaLisa linked to has me wondering how personal care products and caffeine could have gotten into chicken feathers.

From what I have read, the caffeine, diphehydramine, tylenol and Prozac are fed to the chickens. Caffeine to keep them awake and eating, diphenhaydramine (Benadryl) to get them to sleep on schedule after all the caffeine. Prozac to keep them 'happy', less aggressive, sedated, and I imagine Tylenol for pain. I haven't seen the list of all 59 compounds.

Around my neck of the woods, they take the manure and the dead chickens, bake them, and make it into a cleverly named fertilizer they pass off as 'organic' and enviromentally friendly, if you don't mind the 59 more or less compounds in your garden or on your lawn.

Tasteless, I agree. It's hard to eat any chicken besides my own tough old birds, even given the effort and disagreable process I need to get through to 'process' them. Tough old birds make fine meat if cooked properly. I agree! Meat chicken breeds are butchered very early in life and are the more tasty chicken we are used to.

 

[mixin]

Re: Feather removal machines as a vector??

AnnaLisa, you may ignore gsgs's remark about tasteless. He was being funny, referring to the picture I posted and the video.

But aside from that, you're right..there is a huge difference in the taste of chickens. The info in that link you posted was a real eye-opener. I buy antibiotic free chicken but I may not be getting it??

And welcome to the forum.

Apologies to Treyfish for taking his thread OT.

 

[Nox]

Re: Feather removal machines as a vector??

This also raises the question of exporting of waste in counterfeit down products. I was listening to an interview on CBC radio 1 about chicken feather mulch which included beaks, feet, and feces in counterfeit high end winter coats. Can you imagine how much of a health risk this poses?

He's worried about the alternative fillers used instead. "What they do have in them is called 'feather mulch,' which is anything you pick up off the floor. It's feathers, it's beaks, it's feet. Covered in feces, covered in mildew, covered in bacteria."

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2011/06...counterfeits-can-be-hazardous-to-your-health/

 

[AnnaLisa]

Re: Feather removal machines as a vector??

It's hard to say what you are getting in your chicken. We have one 'organic' producer in our state, that has 72,000 chickens in 724 housing units. Basically big pens. That said, it could be a very nice biosecure facility. I don't know. I haven't seen that one. I would think it very risky for them to have that many chickens in any containment and not be medicating them.

I live in a county with millions of laying hens. I KNOW what is happening with that manure. It is being sprayed on thousands of acres, along with cow dung. The bigger cities have thought we may also be a good toilet for their sewage and industrial sludge as well....they figure flinging that thru irrigation sprinklers could have a beneficial effect. I have a nitrate level in my water that is more than double the state limit of 10mg/L. I need an RO. I wonder what pharmaceuticals and ag chemicals are in my water if nitrates are that high. I am reluctant to have my chickens free range, because they do occassionally get off my property to the west, which is not a 'safe' area. It's cropland for a near by dairy CAFO, and a they also allow spreading of chicken manure here. This manure does not smell like manure. I spent most of my adult life around dairy farms and I know 'dairyair'...this is not dairyair. You can smell the chemicals. Other people also comment, 'What's that smell?' When they have the 'cooker' going, it reeks in town so bad, it smells like a rendering plant. (They are baking manure and chicken carcasses.) And this is a gorgeous town, with upper middle class homes.

My only editorial comment on this situation is we are not farming sustainably. The environment can not absorb this amount of manure locally, and the manure is full of synthetic contaminants, which wildlife ingests. People without RO are also drinking this around here, because the water doesn't appear foul.

As far as antibiotic free chicken, it could be antibiotic free but with some other chemical. Arsenic is a big one. I do know totally organic producers, and their chickens are not cheap. My eggs are not cheap either (altho I sell cheaper than the store organic eggs). Organic feed costs a fortune, and to be honest, it is really hard to keep organic plants from not cross polinating with GMOs. Now I will have to do more biosecurity, and that isn't cheap either. It's going to cost me several hundred, maybe a thousand dollars to pen them in better and the WORK of keeping that highly contained environment clean! It's enough to make me cull my flock down to just what my family uses.

I can sympathize with the small Chinese poultry farmer. They are just trying to survive, as are the people who buy this chicken. I am sure most of them are not privy to the information we have. I imagine they have CAFOs around them too. From what I have seen of wet markets on youtube, it looks like a breeding ground for every disease on the planet. I am surprised we don't see a lot more disese coming from regions with wet markets. It seems to me, meat markets in China need their own 'venue' and they need a good deal of cleaning up.

We in our vast knowledge, have made a mess of the planet, resulting in new diseases.

The defeathering machines would certainly spread H7N9 around the environment. As to how H7N9 got to its current virulence and pathogenicity, I'm not schooled enough in poultry genetics to say. I am just giving the public a birds eye view of what it is like to live in the chicken industry zone. It seems to me, that small and medium size farms were more eco-friendly. I once read that gigantism preceeds extinction of a species. Perhaps it will be the same with industry?

Thanks for bearing with me. I realize this forum is more about stats and polymorphisms. I am into that too.