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Another question for Nurses (or anybody)

travelerrn

New member
I'm an RN and have worked in Pediatric Intensive Care for over 25 yrs. If a child has swine flu or bird flu they will be intubated and vented if they are in my unit.

Here's my question. Should the incidence and morbidity of the swine flu increase but we are still allowed to travel to and from work and home. What would be the best way to protect our families.

Should I not go home. Should I change into scrubs at the hospital and shower before changing again to go home. Should I have a decontamination area at home in the garage maybe for me to change before going in to shower.

Over the years I've taken care of alot of infectious diseases. Never brought any unwelcome '"guests" home. Am I just reacting to the term pandemic? Seems only prudent to have a plan. What do you all think?:confused:
 
Re: Another question for Nurses (or anybody)

I understand the medical personnel over here have identified a hotel they will be using in order to protect their families. I would have thought that most health care organisations would have planned to provide a shelter for this very purpose.
 
Re: Another question for Nurses (or anybody)

Welcome to FluTrackers, travelerrn. I will comment on your questions, but please note I am not a HCW. Other FluTrackers members are, and I am sure you will receive comments from them.

First, you are asking two different questions.

Question 1: Should I not go home? This is a personal question that only you can answer for yourself. It is not fair to ask others to make this decision for you.

Question 2: Should I change into scrubs at the hospital and shower before changing again to go home? Should I have a decontamination area at home in the garage maybe for me to change before going in to shower?

Right now, the virulence of this virus is unknown, but it is an influenza virus and you should respect it as such. Following standard protocols and properly using PPE should provide sufficient protection. But having a two stage decontamination plan, once at work and another again at home, sounds like a good idea to me especially if you are dealing with confirmed cases.
 
Re: Another question for Nurses (or anybody)

I personally would shower and change at work, AND have a decontamination area at home just in case you carried anything into the car from your shoes, bag, etc. I don't know your particular situation, but when my kids were small, staying away from home would not have been an option. If you're scrupulous at work with your PPE, then properly decontaminate at home, chances are that your family will be fine.

That being said, there's always a risk and these are the kinds of decisions that make our jobs that much more difficult. I can say that I've taken care of some pretty nasty virulent stuff, including influenzas, over the years and I've never brought anything home that I'm aware of - but there's always a first time and this one's a nasty bugger.

I don't think I helped you one bit, did I? I'm sorry. :(
 
Re: Another question for Nurses (or anybody)

Thank you all for your responses. I realize the final decisions will be mine. I was just curious what others were thinking. At this point the hospital has not shared with us any plans. They may feel they have more time...who knows.

Actually my response will most likely be a staged one, depending on what is currently going on in the public as well as the hospital setting. A combination of all three options ultimately staying in town while I'm working. As I work 6 12 hour shifts and am off for 8 it is an option. Kids are all grown so it is just DH and myself. Also will depend on what if anything the hospital will do.

Thanks again. I think I hear retirement calling!:applause:
 
Re: Another question for Nurses (or anybody)

~ I am a Respiratory Care Professional, Pediatric/neonatal with 22 years critical care experience. In response to your question about whether or not a patient would be intubated and ventilated, that will surely depend upon the patient.

I would hope that no patient is placed on a ventilator unless they need to be. If they progress into atypical pnuemonia (aka ARDS) then just like any patient meeting blood gas criteria, they would probably need to be ventilated. Usually we use High Frequency Ventilation on Atypical pneumonia in order to deliver the high distending pressures needed to keep the alveoli open, and to maintain oxygenation. Most hospitals do not have enough of these specialized ventilators available to handle a pandemic. Couple that with the down-sizing of staff that has been going on in hospitals over the last year, and we're looking at a sad situation.

Atypical pneumonia is a difficult disease process to treat at best. These patients often require one-on-one care. I can't imagine thirty people showing up in the E.R. short of breath, with atypical pneumonia. It's a nightmare scenario. We run out of ventilators sometimes during regular flu season. We have to rent them from companies. Imagine every hospital running out, and the rental companies running out. And having to decide who gets a ventilator and who doesn't, and you'll get a picture of what it will be like should this virus get worse.
 
Re: Another question for Nurses (or anybody)

The CDC has published general and specific guidlines for health care personnel proving care for H1N1 infected patients.

http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/identifyingpatients.htm

Interim Guidance for Clinicians on Identifying and Caring for Patients with Swine-origin Influenza A (H1N1) Virus Infection
May 4, 2009 4:45 PM ET
Objective: This document provides interim guidance for clinicians who might provide care for patients with confirmed novel influenza A (H1N1) or suspected novel influenza A (H1N1) virus infection (previously referred to as swine-origin influenza virus). This document has changed as more ill persons have been identified and more epidemiologic and clinical information has been gathered. CDC recommends that testing be prioritized for those with severe respiratory illness and those at highest risk of complications from influenza, as reflected in this document.
....
Infection control measures


View the guidance on infection control during care of patients with confirmed or suspected novel influenza A (H1N1) virus infection.
....
[infection control ]
http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/guidelines_infection_control.htm
Interim Guidance for Infection Control for Care of Patients with Confirmed or Suspected Novel Influenza A (H1N1) Virus Infection in a Healthcare Setting
May 13, 2009 7:00 PM ET
Isolation precautions
All healthcare personnel who enter the patient?s room should take standard and contact precautions plus eye protection should be used for all patient care activities for patients being evaluated or in isolation for novel H1N1 . Maintain adherence to hand hygiene by washing with soap and water or using alcohol-based hand sanitizer immediately after removing gloves and other equipment and after any contact with respiratory secretions. Nonsterile gloves and gowns along with eye protection should be donned when entering a patient?s room. (See Personal Protective Equipment (PPE) in Healthcare Settings)
Respiratory protection: All healthcare personnel who enter the rooms of patients in isolation with confirmed, suspected, or probable novel H1N1 influenza should wear a fit-tested disposable N95 respirator or better. Respiratory protection should be donned when entering a patient?s room.
Note that this recommendation differs from current infection control guidance for seasonal influenza, which recommends that healthcare personnel wear surgical masks for patient care. The rationale for the use of respiratory protection is that a more conservative approach is needed until more is known about the specific transmission characteristics of this new virus. This recommendation is also outlined in the October 2006 ?Interim Guidance on Planning for the Use of Surgical Masks and Respirators in Healthcare Settings during an Influenza Pandemic ?.
 
Re: Another question for Nurses (or anybody)

I'm an RN and have worked in Pediatric Intensive Care for over 25 yrs. If a child has swine flu or bird flu they will be intubated and vented if they are in my unit.

Here's my question. Should the incidence and morbidity of the swine flu increase but we are still allowed to travel to and from work and home. What would be the best way to protect our families.

Should I not go home. Should I change into scrubs at the hospital and shower before changing again to go home. Should I have a decontamination area at home in the garage maybe for me to change before going in to shower.

Over the years I've taken care of alot of infectious diseases. Never brought any unwelcome '"guests" home. Am I just reacting to the term pandemic? Seems only prudent to have a plan. What do you all think?:confused:

I've worked in infection control for several decades, but the answer to your question is not straightforward.

Unless you family is in protective self-isolation, that is, isolating themselves at home without any contact with the outside world, family members will be at risk from many sources. This is a novel virus, to which very few have immunity. As Dr. Fukuda pointed out at the WHO briefing on 5/14/09, half the people who have become infected so far are relatively young, the median age is around 20. Among those people who have died, half have no known predisposing factors. At present, young people appear to have a higher risk of infection, including severe infection.

However, hospitals, doctors offices, clinics, pharmacies and the like will have higher levels of the virus present. If I were working in a high risk environment, and then going home to my family, I would do the following:

First, whenever personal protective equipment is used, it must be removed with great care. Several studies have shown high levels of self-contamination during removal of PPE.

Second, I would wear a protective gown over my uniform at all times, even when not in an isolation room.

Third, wipe down all shared items (keyboards, phones,) and don't share pens. Remember the influenza virus can survive on paper, cloth, hands, smooth and rough surfaces. It will be everywhere.

Fourth, clean your hands frequently and avoid touching your face except immediately after hand hygiene. Be sure to turn off faucets and open rest room doors with a paper towel. Keep alcohol based hand sanitizer in yoru pocket and use it often throughout the day.

So the first order of business is to reduce your own risk of infection so that you don't infect family members directly through your own illness. Then, concern about indirect transmission comes to the fore.

Fifth, if possible, change into cleans scrubs at the hospital before leaving for the day. I would change my shoes before getting into my car, leaving the pair worn in the hospital in a plastic bag in the trunk. I would use the hand sanitizer before going into the house.

Sixth, I would shower at home before having contact with my family. It's also a good idea to wipe down surfaces and floors daily., including the bathroom. The flu virus is easily killled with detergents and household cleaners..

Seventh, teach family members to wash their hands frequently, avoid touching their feyes, nose and mouth, consider all public touched surfaces and items contaminated, do not share pens, drinking glasses, utensils, food, drinks, plates, avoid hand shakes, hugs, kissing, and try to keep a reasonable distance from others. Avoid public transportation and enclosed places with many people.

Eighth, teach family members to cover their coughs and sneezes, preferably with the crook of their elbow, so they don't contaminate their hands; dispose of tissues directly into waste receptacles, and wear a medical mask, stay home and away from other family members if they are symptomatic

Ninth, optimize health. Eat well. Get plenty of sleep. Take vitamins and supplements. Get needed medical, and dental care incluing immunizations.

Tenth, if you haven't made preparations at home for a severe disaster, start now, it will lessen anxiety. In particular, be certain to have at least a months supply of medications, medical supplies, food and water on hand.

Eleventh, if I had a small baby at home, I would not allow anyone in the house with shoes. I would use a clean cloth between the baby and my clothing whenever the baby is held. I would consider wearing a mask when close to the baby.

The influenza virus lives on cloth, paper, objects, surfaces, hands, in the respiratory tract and probably the GI tract. There will be particularly heavy levels of contamination whereever infected persons are present.
 
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