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Some thoughts - mainly about water and population

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  • #16
    "Live as if you will die tomorrow - plant as if you will live forever."

    This is another BBC article with interviews with CEO's of Nestle and Cargil. They arguing along much the same lines as I am in this thread and many of the quotes are pointed and rather depressing but overall I find it hopeful in that if the heads of large organisations understand the problem and are going on the record, even evangelising, this is a step in the right direction.


    "We are now in a new world with a completely different level of food prices because of the direct link with fuel," he says.
    He says biofuels are only affordable because of the high subsidies they receive, particularly in the US.
    "It is absolutely unacceptable and cannot be justified," he says.
    "There is one demand that I have, and that is not to use food for fuel."
    [re the]Water crisis Mr Brabeck-Letmathe [Nestle chairman] says politicians have not understood that the food market and the oil market are the same - they are both calorific markets.
    "The only difference is that with the food market you need 2,500 calories per person per day, whereas in the energy market you need 50,000 calories per person," he says.
    The whole thing can be found here and is worth taking the time to read.
    Last edited by JJackson; May 29th, 2015, 01:07 PM.

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    • #17
      Re: Some thoughts - mainly about water and population

      In the third post in this thread I wrote
      While the solutions to many of the problems are realistically achievable I am very pessimistic about their implementation, which brings us back to the politics. While disputes over oil have usually been amicably resolved the fields are static and if they extend across international boarders some kind of a solution based on how much resides in each territory can normally be reached. Water has historically been viewed as ‘free’, it flows and many catchments cover several countries. It is also a non negotiable input for humans and no government can survive if its people do not have water so can not produce food. Down stream countries are at the mercy of upstream countries should they decide to draw excessively, control flow by damming, or worse still, diverting rivers. Some of the treaties governing usage date back to colonial times and so were not negotiated by the states that are now disputing them. They also reflect population, usage and flow patterns which have little to do with the current situation and there is always one party who stands to loose with change and will not renegotiate.
      This article on the BBC site illustrates the point nicely. Open mic. gaffes are always illuminating.

      Egyptian politicians are embarrassed after being caught suggesting hostile acts against Ethiopia to stop it from building a dam across the Blue Nile.
      They were inadvertently heard on live TV proposing military action at a meeting called by President Mohammed Morsi.
      Full link at http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-22771563.

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      • #18
        Re: Some thoughts - mainly about water and population

        I live in the Great Lakes. I just want to call attention to the new industry that is devastating several of our western Great Lakes states. Frac sand mining. They are doing mountain top removal of hundreds of large hills and bluffs in western Wisconsin right now. This is taking enormous amounts of water. The government in Wisconsin has been co-opted by large corporations and all of our environmental protections are now null. There is no limit on high capacity wells. When the sand is removed, so it the system that once purified our water. This is occurring at break neck speed as I write this. Additionally, they are beginning aerial spraying of manure via center point irrigation rigs. Yes, that's right. Spewing manure and industrial waste via irrigation rigs that fling this 500 feet airborne. Can you imagine what kind of microbes and poisons this will aerosolize that people will breathe? CAFOs are being invited in to 'reclaim' the land that the sand mines are devastating. There is no limit on the amount of manure they make or spread, by any method. It's terrible to be living thru this. I fear for my people. My nitrate level in my well is 22mg/l, that is twice what the cut off for safe drinking is. I require an RO. Our rural land is being turned into an industrial site. They are churning thru my state and leaving nothing but devastation in their wake. Ultimately, it's fueled by the gas and oil industry, with its mining and industrial farming complexes.

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        • #19
          Re: Some thoughts - mainly about water and population

          http://www.reuters.com/video/2014/07...eoId=324261666
          Transcript
          Largest reservoir in U.S. drops to historic lows

          Thursday, Jul 17, 2014 - 01:26

          Lake Mead, the largest reservoir in the U.S., provides stark visual evidence of the western United States' ongoing drought, as the waterline drops to a historic low. Nathan Frandino reports.

          Atop the Hoover Dam in Nevada, more evidence of the west's ongoing drought. Iconic white "bath rings" mark Lake Mead's old water levels. Now the largest reservoir in the country has dropped to historic lows. (SOUNDBITE) (English) ROSE DAVIS, BUREAU OF RECLAMATION SPOKESPERSON, SAYING: "This is 15 years of historic drought. We're looking at possibly a normal year for 2015, but one normal year isn't going to catch us up. This year alone, the elevation dropped 20 feet and we had the lowest release into Lake Mead from Lake Powell that we've ever had in its history." The waterline now sits at the same level as when the lake was first filled in the 1930s. That puts Lake Mead at about 39 percent capacity - scary news for millions of yearly tourists who come to enjoy the dam and the lake. (SOUNDBITE) (English) MARK LILLIBRIDGE, TOURIST, SAYING: "I'm concerned, I'm concerned for the water, you know? Maybe it's forcing us as a society to watch our water use better and even in good years, hopefully we'll watch it in the future and safeguard something as treasured as water anyway." Still, Lake Mead continues to supply water to millions of customers. But officials warn that if the drought persists water shortages in the southwest are inevitable.
          “‘i love myself.’ the quietest. simplest. most powerful. revolution ever.” ---- nayyirah waheed

          Avatar: Franz Marc, Liegender Hund im Schnee 1911 (My posts are not intended as advice or professional assessments of any kind.)

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          • #20
            In keeping with my use of this thread as a safe place to link to relevant data I offer this Nature Letters contribution on Global agricultural trade and the use of fossil water (GWD Groundwater Depletion).
            It is quite alarming and contains a wealth of data on GWD use by country to produce which crops and where they are then exported to. There are some absurd uses e.g. Kuwait using 22 tonnes of GWD to produce 1Kg of wheat.

            Groundwater depletion embedded in international food trade
            http://www.nature.com/nature/journal...ture21403.html

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            • #21
              I have not written anything in this thread for a while but I saw this today and I love it. Urine Bio-bricks.
              https://www.news.uct.ac.za/article/-...cks-from-urine

              Urine, sand and bacteria in and bricks & fertiliser out and all at room temperature. Traditional brick manufacture use vast amounts of energy in the firing and produces a lot of CO2. Whats not to like?

              As my earlier posts in this thread point out phosphates are running out (post #6) and India has an acute water shortage and are consequently not going to be able to achieve its goal of stopping 100s of millions of people defecating and urinating in the open by using flush toilets (#3).

              Unfortunately the article does not give enough detail to 'try-it-at-home' or I would. If you see anything with that info. please post.
              The linked paper at https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...1334371830188X only has an abstract - the rest is behind a pay firewall.

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              • #22
                concernant l'usage de l'urine, ce sont les chinois qui ont de l'avance ...


                concernant l'économie de l'eau en agriculture ,



                il suffit de faire que les travaux validés de ce très grand Monsieur soient la règle :


                http://open-library.cirad.fr/files/2...1162774426.pdf

                https://www.researchgate.net/publica...ale_permanente

                c'est un bonheur de visiter ceux qui font cela , mais ils sont bien trop rare ...

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