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Ivermectin - A useful treatment for COVID-19 coronavirus? Some discussion and studies...

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  • Ivermectin - A useful treatment for COVID-19 coronavirus? Some discussion and studies...

    I found this recent review on ivermectin data, which looks interesting and appears to have some very positive data behind it, albeit a lot of it is pre full publication.. However, I suspect that as it is a generic and not licensed or produced in some countries e.g. the UK for any indication that this may get overlooked as it will be of little interest to the mainstream Pharma sector.

    See https://covid19criticalcare.com/wp-c...IN-Summary.pdf

    There needs to be some high quality trials undertaken very rapidly to take a proper look at this compound, but I am not able to determine if there are any of a suitable design, size or quality underway. What do we think? We do still need compounds that will fill the gap around vaccines (limitations in production capacity and roll outs), especially if (as per gsgs' post above) we get a rapid vaccine escape.

  • #2
    Safety / ADR profile here when used for current indications https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/art...other-warnings

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Vibrant62 View Post
      I found this recent review on ivermectin data, which looks interesting and appears to have some very positive data behind it, albeit a lot of it is pre full publication.. However, I suspect that as it is a generic and not licensed or produced in some countries e.g. the UK for any indication that this may get overlooked as it will be of little interest to the mainstream Pharma sector.

      See https://covid19criticalcare.com/wp-c...IN-Summary.pdf

      There needs to be some high quality trials undertaken very rapidly to take a proper look at this compound, but I am not able to determine if there are any of a suitable design, size or quality underway. What do we think? We do still need compounds that will fill the gap around vaccines (limitations in production capacity and roll outs), especially if (as per gsgs' post above) we get a rapid vaccine escape.
      Please see:


      J Control Release . Ivermectin: An award-winning drug with antiviral expectations against COVID-19

      Avicenna J Med Biotechnol . Effective Anti-SARS-CoV-2 RNA Dependent RNA Polymerase Drugs Based on Docking Methods: The Case of Milbemycin, Ivermectin, and Baloxavir Marboxil

      J Cell Physiol . Quantitative proteomics reveals a broad-spectrum antiviral property of ivermectin, benefiting for COVID-19 treatment

      Ann Clin Microbiol Antimicrob Ivermectin, a New Candidate Therapeutic Against SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks Vibrant62. I copied your two posts from the discussion thread to start this one. Thanks tetano for all of your work in the Scientific Library. I listed a few of the Ivermectin studies above.

        Ivermectin? I have no idea if it works but we should discuss it. Hopefully I do not get bashed like I did when I opened a thread on hydroxychloroquine. We investigate everything here. Pros and cons. There is an informative value in this pursuit.

        We do not do cancel culture on this site.

        Comment


        • #5
          https://twitter.com/Covid19Critical/...038913/photo/1

          "Ivermectin is effectively a “miracle drug” against COVID-19. The data shows that it prevents transmission & progression of illness in nearly all who take it." Dr. Pierre Kory testifies to the Senate Committee on Homeland Security & Governmental Affairs tomorrow in D.C

          And a twitter link summarising - https://c19ivermectin.com/
          “The only security we have is our ability to adapt."

          Comment


          • #6
            Since I live in Florida all of my dogs since 1984 have been on heart worm preventative their entire lives. I believe the medicine prescribed has been mostly ivermectin. One small breed dog lived until 17 years old. A large breed dog died at 12. Another large breed died in her teens of old age - I forget her exact age at death. I have two dogs now both on heartworm preventative. No problems that I know of. These are not humans, but they are mammals.

            (they think they are humans, however)

            Comment


            • #7
              This medic has made a highly impassioned plea at a US senate hearing for his working groups data to be examined here - he certainly sounds sincere, and as he said, his working group has collectively authored over 2000 peer reviewed and published studies in their careers to date, so they do have both reputations and experience.

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tq8S...P34PLyWa2iSR1c

              The document he is referring to (I think) is presented here and contains an overview of key findings of a number of studies including RCTs) https://osf.io/wx3zn/

              The referenced studies have issues - many are pre-print but they are (mostly) randomised controlled trials of a reasonable size. At the very least this looks like it warrants a definitive international RCT, and let us hope that a major journal expedites peer review of the paper his group has authored. The problem here is that as Ivermectin is a generic, no large pharmaceutical company will fund it or push for it (the opposite is much more likely). As such, any such drive will have to be put in place by medics themselves and/or driven by media and press coverage - unless perhaps a very large generic company might be prepared to get behind this, if one of a big enough size exists? The UK does not even have an EUA in place so any move towards larger trials would have to be led from the top downwards e.g. EMEA, the WHO or regulatory authorities who are not unduly influenced by big Pharma. Even research centres are particularly sensitive to influence as in normal times it is Pharma who funds their research, but in these exceptional times I would hope this is not the case.

              I am most concerned that there is no Plan B - if the vaccine runs into major issues, or the virus evolves away from the vaccine i.e no longer provokes sterilising antibodies, we will have problems for some years and even IF the vaccine companies were able to manufacture the quantities needed in the timescales needed (it will be at least 2022/2023 before current demand is met), we will all be back to square one whilst they address the problems.

              There look to be some promising treatments for the most severe hospitalised patients but as of now there is nothing for GPs / primary care to give to patients to help them unless cases are so severe they require hospitalisation. As the threat and impacts of long covid become increasingly apparent this is critically important for health and economies to get on top of, and novel and expensive therapies will not be affordable or producible at sufficient scale, even in the richest countries e.g.monoclonal antibodies, vaccines and remdesivir (which I would argue has minimal benefit and high toxicity). For these reasons alone it has to be worth some time, money and effort to determine if these findings and data on ivermectin for the prophylaxis and post exposure prophylaxis stand the test of larger scale international study/ studies.

              At best, it could help to bridge the gap between widespread vaccine availability for entire populations and save lives and reduce the numbers with long covid, at worst it could act as insurance in the event of a significant vaccine escape, or some other major issue emerging with the vaccines e.g. ADE or other longer term side effects - the occurrence of any of these would set the world back at least a year if not longer in its road to economic recovery.

              Comment


              • #8
                Ivermectin can be very toxic to some breeds or mixed breed dogs.

                https://www.petmd.com/dog/conditions...ectin_toxicity

                https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...2002.tb01611.x


                The genetics of susceptible collies and a possible similar condition in rare cases of human toxicity discussed here:
                http://www.academia.edu/download/391...c639000000.pdf
                (Or try this to get the PDF) https://scholar.google.com/scholar?h...0000.pdf&btnG=
                Ivermectin 20 years on: maturation of a wonder drug
                TG Geary - Trends in parasitology, 2005

                Here is Dr. Kory's group's website.
                https://covid19criticalcare.com/

                Dr. Been talks about ivermectin here:
                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17_U4RPOvqE
                Last edited by Emily; December 11, 2020, 02:52 AM.
                _____________________________________________

                Ask Congress to Investigate COVID Origins and Government Response to Pandemic H.R. 834

                “‘i love myself.’ the quietest. simplest. most powerful. revolution ever.” ---- nayyirah waheed

                (My posts are not intended as advice or professional assessments of any kind.)
                Never forget Excalibur.

                Comment


                • Emily
                  Emily commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Do you think the genetic vulnerability could be more common in humans, Bertrand? If the use isn't widespread in Europe and N. America maybe the risk is there and we don't know it. Certainly we see people are different in how they react to medications. I always thought it was due to how the liver handled toxins, but now I see it is a lot more complex.
                  I agree that 'test before you treat' should be more common in humans.

                • Vibrant62
                  Vibrant62 commented
                  Editing a comment
                  ivermectin is very widely used in human populations where parasitic infections are an issue, so it has a long and fairly well established track record for ADRs/ safety in humans at dosage recommended for these infections. What human trials in Covid would need to establish is the ADR profile at the dosages recommended in various treatment protocols for prophylaxis or post exposure prophylaxis. This is why we need further study. Of the protocols I have seen it is used either in a one off dosage as for parasitic infections, or some human protocols I have seen use it with 2 doses on concurrent days. The ADR profile for humans can be found here https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/art...other-warnings.

                • bertrand789
                  bertrand789 commented
                  Editing a comment
                  @emily: I have used this pest control for animals roaming free in the forest for long periods. Its disadvantage is its elimination in the stool and therefore its nuisance on soil fauna. On the other hand, studies on the microbiota have shown the link between the presence of parasite and better quality of the human and / or animal microbiome.

                  We are dealing with a syndemia and the microbiota should be regarded as an organ, to judge the actions of such and such a molecule ... It requires interdisciplinary teams with a high level, but that does not seem to me to exist?
                  I know its use on large populations for this one or the following:
                  http://pharmtox.free.fr/toxicologie/...vermectine.htm
                  These strange viruses destabilize many structures and must induce real reflection, because science does not shine.

                  In any case, for the vitamin D file, not having a quality card seems to be asking the real question ...

                  I don't have the data for the genetic sensitivity of humans. I have dreamed of accessing real data bases for a long time ...

              • #9
                bump this

                Comment


                • #10
                  Doing some more digging... and countries such as India and Brazil are using ivermectin widely in patients as part of standard intervention protocols, and these countries have established and reputable research centres. Due to lower costs these centres are widely used as 'test countries' for studying new drugs and interventions by pharmaceutical companies as part of novel drug development, so studies from these centres cannot be discounted - to do so they would also have to discount much data generated to support the sales and marketing of many currently marketed pharmaceuticals.

                  As such, it is probable that large scale studies and RCTs may well emerge from these countries fairly soon, and if these are highly positive (as the data published so far indicates might be the case), then there will rightly be questions to be asked as to why leading western countries did not properly evaluate this intervention in an appropriate timescale - we need to remember that we are talking about saving lives here, as well as economies and people's livelihoods. The only way we can evaluate human ADR and efficacy profiles is with RCT studies of sufficient size, with interventions delivered in appropriate doses, delivered at different times and with robust study designs. If these low cost, generic and repurposed drugs are ignored in favour of novel high cost interventions due to pharmaceutical lobbying and these interventions are subsequently proven to be positive in these countries, then the backlash against both the US and EU/UK regulatory institutions as well as the pharmaceutical companies will be severe IMHO.

                  Comment


                  • Emily
                    Emily commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Well said, Vibrant!

                  • Vibrant62
                    Vibrant62 commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Thanks Emily. What I am also finding especially alarming in all this is the horrible politicisation of medicine and science across the board. Properly conducted scientific data has to be allowed to speak for itself, and stand up to unbiased scrutiny. Its why I am generally tending to post links directly to clinical papers these days rather than news reports in discussions.

                • #11
                  Originally posted by Vibrant62 View Post
                  If these low cost, generic and repurposed drugs are ignored in favour of novel high cost interventions due to pharmaceutical lobbying and these interventions are subsequently proven to be positive in these countries, then the backlash against both the US and EU/UK regulatory institutions as well as the pharmaceutical companies will be severe IMHO.
                  I agree.


                  Comment


                  • #12
                    Interesting interview with Dr. Borody on Sky News Australia (inventor of triple therapy for H Pyori eradication) re: Ivermectin triple therapy. Please note that the video interview dates back to August 2020.

                    His therapy combination includes Ivermectin, doxycycline and zinc combination (for which he has carried out pilot trials in the US), and he is calling for more rigorous RCTs, but has met fierce opposition from regulators.

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93jI...Tv6VIudL3x4oKE

                    Comment


                    • #13
                      mes propos du jour : il y a et avait x solutions , mais financièrement, la "meilleure" c'est le vaccin.

                      préalable : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-Vt...ature=youtu.be

                      Plongez vous, ensuite, dans le concept de syndémie . Les pathologies qui s'expriment sont le fruit de nos actions ( même l'émergence de ce pathogène). Aux états Unis , l'espérance de vie a baissé à cause du surpoids. Ce pathogène tue mieux les obèses traités ou pas . En 1 an on aurait pu faire des choses intelligentes, en respectant le normal, donc le taux de vitamine D, par exemple, on a fait ?

                      On pourrait aussi parler des allergies alimentaires et de leurs causes.

                      En fait, tout ce qui pouvait responsabiliser les uns et les autres a été occulté pour ne retenir que les contraintes collectives égales pour tous ... Il fallait des solutions égales, pour un danger qui vie de nos différences ... Quand on sait cela , car on a été formé , ce n'était pas dur de savoir ou et sur quoi investir quand on vie de la politique avec un petit p ...

                      ensuite c'est simple d'imposer la solution retenue : "Il peut être nécessaire d'accélérer considérablement le déploiement des vaccins pour avoir un impact appréciable sur la suppression de la charge de morbidité qui en résulte."

                      https://cmmid.github.io/topics/covid...l-variant.html

                      Ces propos font suite aux propos indiquant que l'on peut faire faire un nouveau vaccin en 6 semaines d'une part et que une unité pour en produire 700 millions de doses annuelles sera opérationnelle dans 3 mois ...


                      C'est la limite de ce type de forum qui ne veut et ou ne peut parler de politique. Nous avons assisté à une gestion politique d'une crise sanitaire qui a des causes aussi politiques.

                      Les acteurs économiques , notamment dans le domaine de la santé, n'ont fait que ce que leurs objectifs est : prendre leur part de cette aubaine ...


                      De plus, comme les contraintes collectives, égales pour tous , vu les inégalités en place , cela ne peut avoir qu'un temps, il faut passer au passeport de santé ...


                      juste pour sourire:

                      un chinois paye 50€ ( de mémoire) pour se faire vacciner, et nous c'est payé par l'état, avec ce que cela implique ... Le masque c'était investissement individuel , le vaccin c'est investissement collectif bientôt plus ou moins forcé ...

                      ensuite c'est simple d'imposer la solution retenue : "Il peut être nécessaire d'accélérer considérablement le déploiement des vaccins pour avoir un impact appréciable sur la suppression de la charge de morbidité qui en résulte."

                      https://cmmid.github.io/topics/covid...l-variant.html

                      C'est vrai qu'un traitement égal , dans des pays construit sur les inégalités , cela ne peut durer que le temps du reset ...

                      Comment


                      • #14
                        Bertrand - I am in complete agreement that a vaccine that is effective, is ultimately the best option, given to all. All however, does mean ALL people on planet earth, including third world countries - otherwise all that will happen is that we will get mutational variations that do evade the vaccine immunity, and probably quite rapidly. Most estimates I have seen state that even with vaccine availability, manufacturing limitations and limitations on the speed of deployment mean that such an escape is a question of when, not if. Data is showing that immunocompromised individuals can harbour active viral infection for a prolonged period, giving the virus plenty of time to find workarounds to both current antibody responses and other immune system mechanisms.

                        So there needs to be a plan B. The longer other parts of the world have to wait for their vaccines, the greater the risk it will come back to bite us later. This could be a cheap and effective way to block the chances of viral evolution in unvaccinated populations until such time as the vaccinations for ALL is achieved. Otherwise we could well find ourselves restarting the clock and going back to the beginning of the pandemic quite rapidly IMHO.

                        This sort of intervention would not be a replacement for vaccines - it should be adjunctive to the vaccination campaign, and ultimately, give it greater chances of success in the longer term as well as saving lives in the short term.

                        Comment


                        • #15
                          Merci,
                          dans le monde animal on voie cohabiter divers modes de gestion. Je pense en particulier aux influenzas . Les chinois ont choisi le vaccin, d'autres ont fait d'autres choix . Ces mondes peuvent cohabiter et se respecter . Le marché des vaccins animaux chinois en a fait rêver beaucoup. En France, Il y a une telle peur de se faire bannir, que les bons travaux ne sont même pas publiés. J'ai reçu un travail éclairant concernant lien entre vitamine D et cas de covid en France, qui confirme mes impressions ...

                          En zootechnie , comme dans la méthode HACCP , on cherche le bon indicateur . La vitamine D me semble , Le bon candidat . C'est donc le candidat , pour se retrouver au milieu de toutes les attaques ...

                          C'est un dossier positif,
                          il mouille tout le monde,
                          il suggère le respect du normal dans le cadre de l'antropocène et du respect des différences ...

                          Mais c'est aussi le dossier qui concerne bien des lobbys. Il y a les dossiers des statines, ceux des produits "médicaux " breveté ( OKRANOL) , donc légaux., toute l'agroalimentaire, etc ...

                          Il faut une "sacrée paire de couille", ou être une femme* pour oser. Quand j'ai suggéré que la nouvelle patronne du C.D.C avait une belle autoroute , je ne plaisantais pas ...

                          Ceci n'empêche que le reste doit se poursuivre, mais il faut que cela soit manié par des mains neutres et formées, car les erreurs qui nous ont amené là doivent être mieux maitrisées ( voir réçent message ebola like) .

                          Ce n'est, en rien, un plan B, c'est le plan qu'il faut formaliser. Merci, d'avoir usé du mot plan et non guerre . Ce n'est, en rien, une guerre, c'est une stratégie partagée de gestion d'un danger ...

                          Cette stratégie: utiliser le su au mieux, tous les su. L'ivermectine c'est pratique, dans certaines situations , cela remplace la piqure d'avant ...

                          Il faut, au moins être au C.D.C, pour disposer des protections nécessaires et des savoirs et connaissances indispensables pour:

                          élaborer,
                          formaliser
                          et faire voter,
                          cette stratégie ...



                          *la partie lien entre avitaminose D et augmentation du taux d'enfant autiste mâle, cela concerne toutes les femmes, non ?

                          https://molecularautism.biomedcentra...29-020-00399-2

                          cette publication, c'est, bien plus que les morts covid, le déclencheur. Car, ceux ( vaccinés ou pas ) qui ne vont pas faire, et de suite, cela aura un vrai prix ...

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