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**sharon sanders** · July 30, 2021, 05:31 PM

I agree that the very group that should be protecting us is our media. And we have been grossly let down for years - excepting a few reporters.

Listen - the COVID-19 vaccines were NEVER a guarantee. We have stated that on this site many times. We carry vaccine information but we do not "push" it. Our COVID-19 vaccine section in our Scientific Library is here.

We have said here many times that vaccines are ONLY ONE tool.

I have been following the UK situation link to see what might happen in the US. No one knows how bad the situation became in India because the number of deaths is probably grossly undercounted. link In the UK it looks like a trend may be developing of less cases in the past few days. Maybe the Delta attack lasts about 8 weeks? In any event, in a highly vaccinated population it appears the Delta COVID-19 deaths are at a lower rate than in a mostly unvaccinated population (at that time) like India.

So you have to ask yourself. Among all the c**p out there what do you see? Painted with a broad brush - what can you generally ascertain?

What is your personal risk if you get COVID-19? What have you generally seen among your contacts? Any hospitalizations? Any deaths?

I know one death and several illnesses that all recovered at home under a doctor's remote care. The death was male, age 82, pre-vaccine, & with "regular" COVID-19. What will happen with the Delta variant? I have no clue.

I urge everyone, again - contact your health practitioner for insight and advice. Do not take medical advice from the internet.

I am fully vaccinated, very restrictive in my activities, and I carry a mask.

I urge the current administration NOT to encourage large scale lockdowns. Society will not stand for it. Bad. Really bad.

The doctor above is wrong about one thing. There have been plenty of vaccine failures and/or misses. Some flu vaccines have completely missed their target. Some are less effective than anticipated. So it happens. This is why I never gave up on masks or said wtf I am going to return to my old life 100%. Too much is still unknown. Also, most pandemics take several years to work through the world's populations.

Always use at least two sources for your news.

Use your common sense.

Only you can take care of you.

**Emily** · July 31, 2021, 12:30 AM

Something is up, Sharon. The media and some 'experts', haven't just been reporting bad data, they have been demonizing the unvaccinated. That is what led to me researching Third Reich era propaganda done by doctors and public health officials. This all culminated with Biden himself making a statement that anyone not vaccinated by now is not very smart.

There are a couple of reasons for the government going into fascist mode about mass vaccination. One is that they fear an ADE disaster in the vaccinated so they want to eliminate the unvaccinated control group. The other is that the Marek's disease signature has been observed and the unvaccinated (and without immunity from natural infection), even the young and healthy, are in great danger.

I posted Read's 2015 Marek's paper last summer, but all of a sudden this March 2021 people started saving it in the Archive:
https://web.archive.org/web/*/https:...l.pbio.1002198
That may mean legal interest.

Imperfect Vaccination Can Enhance the Transmission of Highly Virulent Pathogens

Abstract

Could some vaccines drive the evolution of more virulent pathogens? Conventional wisdom is that natural selection will remove highly lethal pathogens if host death greatly reduces transmission. Vaccines that keep hosts alive but still allow transmission could thus allow very virulent strains to circulate in a population. Here we show experimentally that immunization of chickens against Marek's disease virus enhances the fitness of more virulent strains, making it possible for hyperpathogenic strains to transmit. Immunity elicited by direct vaccination or by maternal vaccination prolongs host survival but does not prevent infection, viral replication or transmission, thus extending the infectious periods of strains otherwise too lethal to persist. Our data show that anti-disease vaccines that do not prevent transmission can create conditions that promote the emergence of pathogen strains that cause more severe disease in unvaccinated hosts.

Author Summary

There is a theoretical expectation that some types of vaccines could prompt the evolution of more virulent (“hotter”) pathogens. This idea follows from the notion that natural selection removes pathogen strains that are so “hot” that they kill their hosts and, therefore, themselves. Vaccines that let the hosts survive but do not prevent the spread of the pathogen relax this selection, allowing the evolution of hotter pathogens to occur. This type of vaccine is often called a leaky vaccine. When vaccines prevent transmission, as is the case for nearly all vaccines used in humans, this type of evolution towards increased virulence is blocked. But when vaccines leak, allowing at least some pathogen transmission, they could create the ecological conditions that would allow hot strains to emerge and persist. This theory proved highly controversial when it was first proposed over a decade ago, but here we report experiments with Marek’s disease virus in poultry that show that modern commercial leaky vaccines can have precisely this effect: they allow the onward transmission of strains otherwise too lethal to persist. Thus, the use of leaky vaccines can facilitate the evolution of pathogen strains that put unvaccinated hosts at greater risk of severe disease. The future challenge is to identify whether there are other types of vaccines used in animals and humans that might also generate these evolutionary risks.

Citation: Read AF, Baigent SJ, Powers C, Kgosana LB, Blackwell L, Smith LP, et al. (2015) Imperfect Vaccination Can Enhance the Transmission of Highly Virulent Pathogens. PLoS Biol 13(7): e1002198. https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pbio.1002198
Academic Editor: Christophe Fraser, Imperial College London, UNITED KINGDOM
Received: January 15, 2015; Accepted: June 11, 2015; Published: July 27, 2015
Copyright: © 2015 Read et al. This is an open access article distributed under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution License, which permits unrestricted use, distribution, and reproduction in any medium, provided the original author and source are credited
Data Availability: All data files are deposited in Dryad, doi:10.5061/dryad.4tn48.

**sharon sanders** · July 31, 2021, 05:00 AM

A few comments:

1) It is wrong to demonize any group of people. This can lead to some very unfortunate consequences.

2) When vaccines work, they are miracle drugs.

3) Vaccines do not always work as anticipated and we should always be ready for this.

4) Vaccines, like other public health tools, are not 100% effective by themselves. You need to layer your protections in a pandemic.

5) Do not take medical advice from the internet. Do your research. Contact your medical practitioner about medical questions.

6) Governments need to realize that they can not control what people think. The only communication plan that works is the truth.

7) Further lockdowns in Western societies will lead to mayhem.

**Emily** · July 31, 2021, 10:46 PM

https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/statu...032943621?s=20
Eric Feigl-Ding
@DrEricDing

Replying to@DrEricDing

3) CDC internal report also reveals the results of an “CANARY IN A COAL MINE* unpublished Massachusetts contact tracing study revealing an outbreak of vaccinated to vaccinated transmission that was genomic sequencing confirmed. why the hell is this not published yet?!?!?!

11:04 PM · Jul 29, 2021·Twitter for iPhone

**Emily** · July 31, 2021, 11:25 PM

Report released next day.

MMWR - Outbreak of SARS-CoV-2 Infections, Including COVID-19 Vaccine Breakthrough Infections, Associated with Large Public Gatherings — Barnstable County, Massachusetts, July 2021 - FluTrackers News and Information

https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/-2019-ncov-new-coronavirus/-2019-ncov-studies-research-academia/epidemiology/920642-mmwr-outbreak-of-sars-cov-2-infections-including-covid-19-vaccine-breakthrough-infections-associated-with-large-public-gatherings-%E2%80%94-barnstable-county-massachusetts-july-2021

Outbreak of SARS-CoV-2 Infections, Including COVID-19 Vaccine Breakthrough Infections, Associated with Large Public Gatherings — Barnstable County, Massachusetts, July 2021 Early Release / July 30, 2021 / 70 Catherine M. Brown, DVM1; Johanna Vostok, MPH1; Hillary Johnson, MHS1; Meagan Burns, MPH1; Radhika Gharpure, DVM2;

**Emily** · July 31, 2021, 11:37 PM

https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/statu...30290080108544

Eric Feigl-Ding

@DrEricDing

Replying to@DrEricDing

5) the Singapore Delta outbreak proves that vaccinated still transmitted. In this #DeltaVariant cluster alone, among 29 vaccinated who got infected, 21 transmissions events were between vaccinated-to-vaccinated or vaccinated-to-unvaccinated. That’s a lot! http://covid.viz.sg

12:18 AM · Jul 2, 2021·Twitter for iPhone

https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/statu...30854386073602

Eric Feigl-Ding

@DrEricDing
Jul 2

Replying to@DrEricDing

6) Also notice (4 o’clock position) that many of the unvaccinated-to-unvaccinated first initially started from a vaccinated-to-unvaccinated transmission chain!!! This demonstrates why vaccinated people still need to mask up damnit! (This is a subtweet at a public health agency)

**Emily** · July 31, 2021, 11:43 PM

So most of the uptick in hospitalizations and deaths in the US are from CDC's carrot/stick game. (Advising vaccinated they could unmask.) They should have known better, so should science journalists. But the horror sells vaccines and controversy is great for news.

I guess the FDA's latest guidance on antibody testing is part of the same game.

**Emily** · August 5, 2021, 02:02 AM

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02125-1

NEWS
03 August 2021

Surprise dip in UK COVID cases baffles researchers

Daily recorded infections have more than halved since mid-July. Few researchers anticipated such a sharp decline, and they are now struggling to interpret it.

Philip Ball

...

Not herd immunity

One thing it doesn’t mean, says Edmunds, is that the United Kingdom has built up enough population immunity through vaccination and natural infection to stop the virus spreading. “The drop in cases is unprecedented to some extent, in that it seemed to occur everywhere,” he says — something which has been previously seen only after lockdowns. “But herd immunity would come in different places at different times.”

**sharon sanders** · August 5, 2021, 05:23 AM

Originally posted by Emily View Post

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02125-1

NEWS
03 August 2021

Surprise dip in UK COVID cases baffles researchers

Daily recorded infections have more than halved since mid-July. Few researchers anticipated such a sharp decline, and they are now struggling to interpret it.

Philip Ball

...

Not herd immunity

One thing it doesn’t mean, says Edmunds, is that the United Kingdom has built up enough population immunity through vaccination and natural infection to stop the virus spreading. “The drop in cases is unprecedented to some extent, in that it seemed to occur everywhere,” he says — something which has been previously seen only after lockdowns. “But herd immunity would come in different places at different times.”

Is the duration of the Delta variant cycle about 8 weeks in a well vaccinated society?

UK - Gov: COVID-19 variant Delta trend & Omicron becoming dominant, and now Omicron 2..... - FluTrackers News and Information

https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/europe-aj/europe-covid-19-sept-13-2020-may-31-2021/918022-uk-covid-19-variant-delta-trend-us-issues-level-4-travel-advisory-do-not-travel-july-19-2021/page3#post921054

UK - Gov: COVID-19 variant Delta trend & Omicron becoming dominant, and now Omicron 2.....

**Pathfinder** · August 8, 2021, 04:49 PM

Iceland -

Translation Google

Herd immunity must be achieved by transmitting the virus

Árni Sæberg writes August 8, 2021 12:13 PM

Þórólfur Guðnason is the epidemiologist of Iceland

The epidemiologist believes that it is now necessary to try to achieve herd immunity to the coronary virus by letting it continue, but to try to prevent serious illness by protecting vulnerable groups. He says the goal at this point cannot be to eradicate the virus from society.

One and a half months after the abolition of all domestic operations, a record number have been diagnosed infected in recent weeks, despite the fact that the majority of the population has been vaccinated.

Þórólfur Guðnason said in Sprengisandur in Bylgjan this morning that it is disappointing that herd immunity has not been achieved with vaccination. He says there is only one other way to achieve herd immunity, to allow the virus to spread throughout the community.

Þórólfur says that he has talked about it since the beginning of the epidemic that the crown virus mutated. This has now happened with the arrival of the Delta variant across the border.

He says, however, that the vaccination was not in vain. "The vaccination has prevented a serious illness, there is no question about that," says Þórólfur.

Þórólfur says that it is necessary to respond to how many people become infected after vaccination. "We just need to shuffle the cards and come up with new plans," he said.

"We really can not do anything else," says Þórólfur when asked whether the nation of seventy to eighty must be allowed to become infected in order to achieve herd immunity.

Some need to be revaccinated
Þórólfur says that the priority now is to give booster doses to those who have responded poorly to vaccination. "We need to try to vaccinate and better protect those who are vulnerable, but let us tolerate the infection," he said.

"I think it is quite clear that Janssen's defense is weaker than that of other vaccines," says Þórólfur. He says it is a priority to give those who received the Jansen vaccine a booster dose. Then, for example, teachers and the elderly need to be given a booster dose as soon as possible.

"It is not a priority now to vaccinate everyone with the third dose, as we also need to think: Maybe we should get a new variant? Do we need to be vaccinated with another vaccine? ”He says. Þórólfur says that the fight against the virus will be characterized by such uncertainty.

Will not propose hard action
"We need to somehow navigate this way, and we are now in this, not to get too many serious illnesses so that the hospital system does not collapse, but still try to achieve this herd immunity by letting the virus somehow run."

Þórólfur believes that the most important action now is to strengthen the hospital system and enable Landspítali to accept more people who need hospitalization.

He says the situation at Landspítali is not good, even though no emergency call has been received from there. "I do not think we have reached the point where we need to take tough action," he said.

However, he says we need to be ready to take action if we are to see a lot of seriously infected people.

Þórólfur says that there will be discussions with specialists and those who work at Landspítali about improvements at the hospital. He does not intend to comment in detail on what needs to be done for the hospital to meet other demand.

Offer parents a vaccine for their children
It has been decided to invite parents to vaccinate children as new research has indicated that the side effects of vaccinating children are not serious. However, children can become seriously ill if they become infected with the Delta variant.

Ná þurfi hjarðónæmi með því að láta veiruna ganga - Vísir

https://www.visir.is/g/20212140884d/na-thurfi-hjardonaemi-med-thvi-ad-lata-veiruna-ganga

Sóttvarnalæknir telur að nú verði að reyna að ná fram hjarðónæmi gegn kórónuveirunni með því að láta hana ganga áfram, en reyna að koma í veg fyrir alvarleg veikindi með því að hlífa viðkvæmum hópum. Hann segir markmiðið á þessum tímapunkti ekki geta verið að útrýma veirunni úr samfélaginu.

**sharon sanders** · August 9, 2021, 06:07 AM

bump this

**Pathfinder** · August 9, 2021, 10:39 AM

Fauci hopeful COVID vaccines get full OK by FDA within weeks

By AAMER MADHANI
yesterday

WILMINGTON, Del. (AP) — The U.S. government’s top infectious disease expert, Dr. Anthony Fauci, said Sunday that he was hopeful the Food and Drug Administration will give full approval to the coronavirus vaccine by month’s end and predicted the potential move will spur a wave of vaccine mandates in the private sector as well as schools and universities.

The FDA has only granted emergency-use approval of the Pfizer, Moderna and Johnson & Johnson vaccines, but the agency is expected to soon give full approval to Pfizer.
...

Fauci hopeful COVID vaccines get full OK by FDA within weeks

https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-business-health-coronavirus-pandemic-8905fc1d3be22b7b83110f04e909753e

The U.S. government’s top infectious disease expert, Dr. Anthony Fauci, says he's hopeful that the Food and Drug Administration will give full approval to the coronavirus vaccine by month’s end.

**gsgs** · August 10, 2021, 07:11 PM

for delta : VE , LA-County=54% , St.Louis=79?% , FL=75?%, LA=77?% good reporting in OK,VE=90%
Israel VE<0 , Iceland <50% ,, England 59% ,Singapore <70% , but GER,FRA,VA,OK, etc. VE>90%
how many are trying to hide and obfuscate {and underreport ?} data on BT cases in USA :

Access to this page has been denied

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/566755-15-states-are-keeping-covid-breakthrough-cases-under-wraps

px-captcha

**gsgs** · August 10, 2021, 08:23 PM

for delta : VE , LA-County=54% , St.Louis=79?% , FL=75?%, LA=77?% good reporting in OK,VE=90%
Israel VE<0 , Iceland <50% ,, England 59% ,Singapore <70% , but GER,FRA,VA,OK, etc. VE>90%
how many are trying to hide and obfuscate {and underreport ?} data on BT cases in USA :

Access to this page has been denied

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/566755-15-states-are-keeping-covid-breakthrough-cases-under-wraps

px-captcha

**JJackson** · August 11, 2021, 07:00 AM

Emily posted this link to a short news interview which is much the best explanation of our current situation I have seen. I would highly recommend it.

https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1425086490002997248

"Herd immunity is not a possibility" because the Delta variant "still infects vaccinated individuals". Professor Sir Andrew Pollard, director of the Oxford Vaccine Group.
I think this could be interpreted as a peculiar to the Delta variant but I think, hope, he just meant that is currently the case because that is the dominant UK strain at present. All the strains can cause infections in those who have been previously vaccinated or infected. Even if they reduce infection by 50%, due to the much higher R(0) of SARS-CoV-2, that still leaves it more contagious than seasonal flu.

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Discussion thread VI - COVID-19 (new coronavirus)

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