Discussion thread VI - COVID-19 (new coronavirus)

[JJackson]

Unlikely, I would be looking at the wild animal population. Sounds like a job for Ecohealth Alliance.

[gsgs]

now I found the mtations of the sister lineages BA.1,BA.2

https://github.com/cov-lineages/pango-designation/files/7668225/Omicron_BA.1_BA.2_mutations.csv

which seem to contradict the one-human hypothesis

isolated (human or animal) high-mutation community spread with several lineages

being an immunity-escape, that suggests a human reservoir (Moretele ?)

[Emily]

gs commented that the mutations may have occurred in an animal host and Robert Garry has posted an interesting thread on Virological.org with the graphic at the link https://virological.org/uploads/shor...rUKR0VAEFp.pdf which looks at the mutations documented in humans and other mammals from which it seems most likely that, if it did come from a non-human host, it was probably rodent. The Omicron branch in the phylogenic tree at Nextstrain.org dates all the way back to May 2020 so is not rooted in Delta, or any other VOC, making it unclear where its origins lie.

Lab rat or mouse?

https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/china-other-health-threats/china-covid-19-sept-13-2020-may-31-2021/930629-senior-chinese-scientist-acquired-sars-cov-2-in-lab-infection-accident-in-early-2020-virologist-says

[BostonRN]

Hello everyone, thank you for your service here!

Found this youtube page that uses neat technology to measure covid. Has a few different live feeds with visuals.

Would love to see your comments on this one in particular, that is giving real time view of severity over last 5 days. Want to see if it is a useful measurement tool.

https://youtu.be/DrbSgHSt4Ks

[Pathfinder]

France -

Translation Google

Detox. No, there is no "epidemic of the unvaccinated"

Posted the 12/07/2021 11:00

Article written by
Detox - Arte

Many of them use or have used this shocking slogan, supposed to convince the hesitant to get vaccinated.

An " epidemic of the unvaccinated "! Many of them use or have used this shocking slogan, supposed to convince the hesitant to get vaccinated. Among them: the American President Joe Biden, the head of the European Commission, Ursula Von der Leyen, through the office of the Minister of Health in France. But eleven months after the first shots, can we really continue to talk about a pandemic of unvaccinated people?

The vaccine, of course, always helps to slow down the epidemic: the more vaccinated there are, the harder the virus is to circulate. Likewise, the more people who are vaccinated, the less serious forms of Covid-19 are expected to be identified. And if vaccines do not offer complete protection against contamination, and even tend to be less effective over time, their effect is not zero - far from it. Even today, there are four times fewer positive cases in France, among the vaccinated than among the unvaccinated.

But when three quarters of the inhabitants, as in France, are vaccinated, the positive cases mathematically end up being found in the majority in this population. At the beginning of November, there were even twice as many vaccinated as unvaccinated among the new positive cases.

" It is logical that the vaccinated are now the most numerous to relay the virus ", confirms to Detox Jean-François Delfraissy, president of the Scientific Council, who adds that under these conditions: "it is indeed false to speak of an epidemic of no-vaccinated ”.

This slogan, in addition to being wrong, can above all turn out to be counterproductive. On November 24, WHO Director Tedros Ghebreyesus expressed concern over the " false sense of security that vaccines have ended the pandemic, and that vaccinated people do not need to take additional precautions ”.

https://www.francetvinfo.fr/sante/maladie/coronavirus/vaccin/desintox-non-il-n-y-a-pas-d-epidemie-de-non-vaccines_4872267.html

[sharon sanders]

As we continue to move forward in this pandemic and consider the messaging of governments, it is important to consider what they do, and not what they say.

Is a variant supposedly mild? What are world governments doing?

Is a variant thought to be severe? What are they doing?

Apply this also to such things as the global supply chain, potential war, social unrest....etc. Weigh what they are doing, and ask yourself why they are doing it.

This has absolutely nothing to do with politics or the type of governmental system in question. Rather it is matter of looking at the things being implemented with a pragmatic eye as to "why".

There are a few old sayings that can guide the process of evaluation. ----"Where there is smoke there is fire."----"When you hear hoofbeats, look for horses not zebras."----"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." (Hanlons razor) The list can go on.

The common man (such as many of us here) will never be privy to the decision making of the world government's decision makers. We have to work from incomplete data. But if we watch carefully, and not allow ourselves to be caught up in conspiracy theories or paranoia, then we might just be able to discern what is going on enough to respond appropriately.

Agree.

[Okieman]

As we continue to move forward in this pandemic and consider the messaging of governments, it is important to consider what they do, and not what they say.

Is a variant supposedly mild? What are world governments doing?

Is a variant thought to be severe? What are they doing?

Apply this also to such things as the global supply chain, potential war, social unrest....etc. Weigh what they are doing, and ask yourself why they are doing it.

This has absolutely nothing to do with politics or the type of governmental system in question. Rather it is matter of looking at the things being implemented with a pragmatic eye as to "why".

There are a few old sayings that can guide the process of evaluation. ----"Where there is smoke there is fire."----"When you hear hoofbeats, look for horses not zebras."----"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." (Hanlons razor) The list can go on.

The common man (such as many of us here) will never be privy to the decision making of the world government's decision makers. We have to work from incomplete data. But if we watch carefully, and not allow ourselves to be caught up in conspiracy theories or paranoia, then we might just be able to discern what is going on enough to respond appropriately.

[JJackson]

gs commented that the mutations may have occurred in an animal host and Robert Garry has posted an interesting thread on Virological.org with the graphic at the link https://virological.org/uploads/shor...rUKR0VAEFp.pdf which looks at the mutations documented in humans and other mammals from which it seems most likely that, if it did come from a non-human host, it was probably rodent. The Omicron branch in the phylogenic tree at Nextstrain.org dates all the way back to May 2020 so is not rooted in Delta, or any other VOC, making it unclear where its origins lie.

[JJackson]

gs re #506.4 The virus will not make 'the big jump' seen in Omicron normally in humans as one or more of the intermediate steps will get weeded out by the immune system, however in severely immunocompromised hosts it may survive and get additional changes. If one of these multi-mutation variants happens to be fit it may survive and spread from any host that is subsequently infected by the immunocompromised host. The same could also happen in a non-human host with a very different immune profile however in either case I would expect the new hosts to rapidly apply immune pressure causing considerable genetic change to the epitopes they interact with. It will be interesting to see where these changes are applied. A very similar set of mutations were observed in an in vitro epithelial mono-layer, where there is intra-cellular immunity but no adaptive immunity, but they could not compete against wild type in an in-vivo model.

[Emily]

https://twitter.com/Daoyu15/status/1464873865448808450

[Emily]

https://twitter.com/RWMaloneMD/status/1465863416468447233

Robert W Malone, MD @RWMaloneMD

This guy pulls his punches and will not speak the obvious truth. The selective pressure is the vaccines. Note where his funding comes from. Another intimidated, spineless academic.




theconversation.com
Will omicron – the new coronavirus variant of concern – be more contagious than delta? A virus...
It’s too early to say whether the newly identified omicron variant is going to overtake delta. But particular mutations in the new strain have researchers deeply concerned.

8:00 PM · Nov 30, 2021·Twitter Web App

[gsgs]

it could have accumulated the mutations over time by selection due to respiratory spread,
not just growth inside the body.
in animals ?

https://www.statnews.com/2021/12/02/some-experts-suggest-omicron-variant-may-have-evolved-in-an-animal-host/

or maybe in some remote isolated community

[gsgs]

what was that organisation, created last year, dedicated to find and stop new outbreaks like omicron ?
Head was Ian Lipkin, I remember how I applauded at twitter. But now I can't find it.
Only nichtssagende stetments by Lipkin now, no reference to that task.

We were asking for it here since 2006's H5N1

China stopped Wuhan-Hu-1 in Feb.2020
But they let it escape to other countries
and most of the rest of the world didn't stop it

Alpha, Delta were detected too late.

Omicron was detected early but spreads better and faster, but i think we should try to stop it to contain it now.,
support ZA's measures financially. Although it's probably invain and too late.


------------------edit------------------------
https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/2021...d0baae175.html

The key to global public health is global cooperation, transparency and investment."
the lack of international, inter-institutional and interpersonal trust, respect and collaboration,
[not the project that I had in mind. It was rather about early stopping emerging pandemics]
-------------edit--------------------------------
pandemic prevention institute , Rockefeller Foundation

https://www.rockefellerfoundation.org/pandemicpreventioninstitute/

https://twitter.com/PPI_Insights

from what I read so far I'm disappointed by their tweets

[gsgs]

you mean, it was not created by finetuning ? Big achievement to create such a successful
strain without some continuous adaption and selection (=finetuning)

[sharon sanders]

Masks are only part of disease avoidance practice. They help, but like vaccines, they are not guaranteed. As I have said many times, I am living a COVID life style. I do not eat inside any restaurants. I do not attend big events. I keep a distance from others - even outside. I carry an N95 mask, and I am fully vaccinated. Even these actions do not guarantee anything. It just gives me a chance. I am really enjoying my adult children and other relationships. I want more time and I am willing to make changes to my life style to get it.