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Discussion thread VI - COVID-19 (new coronavirus)

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  • Here comes the vaccine army, with new-to-the-needle volunteers

    By ELISE YOUNG | Bloomberg | Published: January 25, 2021

    U.S. taxpayers have spent at least $12.4 billion for private companies to develop covid-19 vaccines. Now they're turning to an army of hypodermic-wielding volunteers, some with little practical experience, to help immunize 330 million Americans.

    New York Governor Andrew Cuomo is relaxing rules to allow podiatrists, dentists and pharmacy students to give shots. In Colorado, Governor Jared Polis is asking for help from chiropractors and optometrists. Connecticut, Massachusetts and New Jersey are recruiting health-care retirees to fill shifts at stadiums, vacant department stores and other spaces repurposed as government-run vaccination megasites.

    ... States vary on certification requirements for intramuscular injections, but the vast majority of those permitted are doctors, nurses and pharmacists. In some states, medical assistants can give doses, but only under a physician's supervision and in a clinical setting. Connecticut, Colorado and Nevada in recent weeks permitted veterinarians to volunteer.

    https://www.stripes.com/news/us/here...teers-1.659822

    Comment


    • Does anyone know of testing done with the mRNA vaccines that ruled out cytokine storm reactions in recipients of the vaccines who had already been exposed and developed immunity to wild virus? Here's why I ask:
      1. Clusters of post vaccine deaths in care homes.
      2. Some verified reports of deaths/severe reactions in vaccine recipients who had been infected previously with wild virus.
      3. Read about death of doctor in India after vaccine. It was called a heart attack, but it was reported that his lungs were full of pus.
      _____________________________________________

      Ask Congress to Investigate COVID Origins and Government Response to Pandemic H.R. 834

      “‘i love myself.’ the quietest. simplest. most powerful. revolution ever.” ---- nayyirah waheed

      (My posts are not intended as advice or professional assessments of any kind.)
      Never forget Excalibur.

      Comment


      • JJackson
        JJackson commented
        Editing a comment
        I know of nothing specific but can not think of any mechanism that would cause it. The mRNA vaccine are just spike mRNA in some lipids, neither of which are likely to cause a severe immune response. The lipid protects the RNA until it gets into the cell and acts by fusing with the lipid cell wall and allows the mRNA to enter the cytoplasm where it will act like native mRNA and be used to make spike protein, which is basically the same as wild type protein. After that the host immune cells will treat it like an infection and produce a normal response to a foreign protein. This will produce a self limiting immune response which would carry the same risks as the early stage of natural infection, but without making any new virus to sustain the reaction, the second shot mimics that and may illicit a more severe reaction as it is stimulating many more Spike specific B and T cells that were generated by the first shot.
        Last edited by JJackson; January 28, 2021, 02:06 PM.

      • Emily
        Emily commented
        Editing a comment
        I think I'm on the same page as both of you about this. I'd guess that someone recovered from a previous wild virus infection might react to the first vaccine shot more like someone else getting their second shot since like JJackson explained, they have the immune cells ready to go. I don't know of any reason for it to be worse, either.

        https://www.nbcnews.com/science/scie...nated-n1249766
        "So far, there is no evidence that a vaccine would be unsafe for Covid-19 survivors, but more research is needed, said Dr. Sarah Fortune, chair of immunology and infectious diseases at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health."

        Certainly was not researched in the trials. Interesting that 56 yr old or older HCW's were excluded. I think most of the HCW deaths after vaccination are in that age range.

        https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04283461

      • blacknail
        blacknail commented
        Editing a comment
        I have been thinking about this. We are sending instructions to cells to make spike proteins inside them. Now, consider that there may be other viruses in those cells lying dormant that suddenly get access to a brand new spike protein that the body has never seen before. Maybe one of those second viruses uses that new protein in order to infect other cells. This would only continue for a short time and it wouldn't necessarily work with any particular virus so it would be really hard to study.

    • bump this

      Comment



      • China - You know you want to live there! State tv: China starts using ANAL SWABS to test 'high-risk' people for COVID-19 about January 19, 2021
        Last edited by sharon sanders; January 27, 2021, 09:02 PM.

        Comment



        • Health Workers, Stuck in the Snow, Administer Coronavirus Vaccine to Stranded Drivers

          By Michael Levenson
          Jan. 28, 2021, 12:14 a.m. ET

          An impromptu roadside vaccination in rural southern Oregon during a snowstorm, when public health workers realized their remaining doses of vaccine would expire while they were stranded.Credit...Josephine County Public Health Department, via Twitter


          Public health workers in Josephine County, Ore., said they had walked from car to car, giving shots to drivers with vaccine doses that would expire in six hours.

          ... “Honestly, once we knew we weren’t going to be back in town in time to use the vaccine, it was just the obvious choice,” he said. “Our No. 1 rule right now is nothing gets wasted.”

          https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/28/u...imes&smtyp=cur

          Comment


          • COVID-19: New variant blamed for surge in coronavirus cases in Los Angeles - CAL.20C

            Sunday 31 January 2021 22:45
            Stuart Ramsay

            Scientists in Los Angeles searching for signs that the UK COVID variant had crossed into the US have stumbled on a different one that appears to have been home grown in California - fuelling a surge in cases in the world's entertainment capital.

            Nearly 50% of all new coronavirus cases in southern California in January alone are traced to the new variant, CAL.20C, one of the pathologists to identify the strain told Sky News.

            ... Doctors and researchers at the world-famous Cedars-Sinai medical institution are still testing to see if the California variant is more deadly, more infectious, and more resistant to vaccines, like it is feared others might be.

            They found the new strain only because they realised that British scientists were far ahead in seeing the importance of testing for variants.

            ... The virus is constantly evolving to avoid the immune system, and what is interesting about CAL.20C is that it is developing in a completely different way to the UK, South African and Brazilian variants.

            https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-...snt-sf-twitter

            Comment


            • blacknail
              blacknail commented
              Editing a comment
              I have been loosely following this and I believe that CAL.20C is a variant of B.1.426 if anyone is looking to dig into it deeper...

              the CAL.20C strain may be partially responsible for the magnitude of the surge in COVID-19 on the West Coast of the US. The S protein L452R mutation is within a known receptor binding domain that has been found to be markedly resistant to certain monoclonal antibodies to the spike protein(4). Mutations in this domain may be resistant to polyclonal sera as seen in convalescent patients or those post vaccination(5). The functional effect of this mutation in concert with other detected mutations in CAL.20C, both in terms of infectivity and antibody resistance is unknown at this time

              source: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1...86v1.full-text

          • bump this

            Comment


            • Chilling trend: A longer, deadlier pandemic
              Sam Baker

              Mutated versions of the coronavirus threaten to prolong the pandemic, perhaps for years — killing more people and deepening the global economic crisis in the process.

              The big picture: The U.S. and the world are in a race to control the virus before these variants can gain a bigger foothold. But many experts say they already expect things to get worse before they get better. And that also means an end to the pandemic may be getting further away.
              • “It may take four to five years before we finally see the end of the pandemic and the start of a post-COVID normal,” Singapore’s education minister said last week, according to the Wall Street Journal.
              <snip>

              https://www.axios.com/coronavirus-va...c9f950a94.html

              Okieman Comment: Finally, an article that pulls no punches on what we may be facing.

              Comment


              • JJackson
                JJackson commented
                Editing a comment
                I think this view is overly pessimistic. Mutations in the RNA sequence have been occurring from day one but none yet have been shown to do anything very dramatic. When the immune system makes antibodies, B cells and T cells they are to any part of the virus it encounters. The more identical, or very nearly identical, bits are encountered the more strong the response in the cells with matching receptors start dividing rapidly. This leaves you with a very broad cocktail of antibodies not just against spike but recognition of short peptides from all over the genome, of which the Spike is a small part and the RBD a very small part. While SNPs (Single Point Mutation) may reduce or stop binding for one antibody at one point their effect is not likely make much difference to thousands of others. Should you get infected again by a slightly different strain the other antibodies you have, to all the unchanged areas, should wake up the immune system which will fill in the gaps by making anti-bodies to the changed sites.

                I had just posted on these variants, including a table showing the effect on binding of a range of mAbs, when tested against the variant SNPs. https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/...844#post905844

                Where I think the post is too optimistic is the 4 or 5 years to the end of the pandemic. This depends on what they mean by end. The H1N1(2009) flu pandemic has not ended we have just got accustomed to living with it, on the upside it displaced the existing strain so was a straight swap but with the added advantage the old strain had oseltamivir resistance and the new did not . The Ebola epidemics have all ended but are being constantly reseeded from the animal host reservoir. I expect this to become endemic like the four CoVs that cause common colds but with much more severe symptoms for those who have never encountered it before. For those who have, or been vaccinated, it may not be much more than a cold at least for a few years, but if it is circulating like colds you will probably get your immune boost every few years anyway leaving it as an additional problem in the flu season which we will have to adapt to.

              • Okieman
                Okieman commented
                Editing a comment
                I just know what has been reported to be happening in South Africa and Manaus Brazil, as well as the United Kingdom and Portugal. I remember what it felt like when I watched Italy spiral into pandemic chaos and lockdown. And then New York just a few short weeks later. I don't understand all of the virology. But I do learn from the mistakes and experiences of others. We have traveled this path before, and it was a hard and rocky road.

            • Bayer and Rentschler to help produce CureVac's COVID-19 shot

              FEBRUARY 1, 20213:30 AM. UPDATED 2 HOURS AGO
              By Reuters Staff

              BERLIN (Reuters) - CureVac has signed up pharmaceuticals giant Bayer and contract drugmaker Rentschler to help to produce its experimental COVID-19 vaccine, joining the global push to boost vaccine supplies.

              German biotech company CureVac, which began late-stage testing of the vaccine in December and expects to announce interim results this quarter, said it aims to produce up to 300 million doses in 2021 and between 600 million and 1 billion doses in 2022.

              Bayer, making the first foray into vaccine manufacturing in its 160-year history, expects to produce 160 million doses of the CureVac shot in 2022 at its Wuppertal site in western Germany, head of pharma Stefan Oelrich told a news conference.

              Though the volume target was for next year, Bayer hopes to be able to launch production in 2021, Oerlich said.

              https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...source=twitter


              Comment


              • Source: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/f...covid-secrets/

                China's COVID Secrets
                February 2, 2021 / 1h 24m
                Season 2021: Episode 9

                The untold story of the beginning of the coronavirus pandemic and how China responded. Chinese scientists and doctors, international disease experts and health officials reveal missed opportunities to suppress the outbreak and lessons for the world.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Shiloh View Post
                  Source: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/f...covid-secrets/

                  China's COVID Secrets
                  February 2, 2021 / 1h 24m
                  Season 2021: Episode 9

                  The untold story of the beginning of the coronavirus pandemic and how China responded. Chinese scientists and doctors, international disease experts and health officials reveal missed opportunities to suppress the outbreak and lessons for the world.
                  As usual we are ignored.

                  SARS Deja-vu for ProMed? Ok...ProMed made no new posts after the 1st one for two days and then only 8 posts in the first 9 days? What kind of "emergency" reaction IS this? Really...?



                  Click image for larger version  Name:	promed01.PNG Views:	1 Size:	210.6 KB ID:	906080


                  https://www.wired.com/story/how-prom...d-19-and-sars/


                  We, however, knew this was a problem and our team of medical doctors, scientists, and "regular" people made 133 posts in the same 9 days. link

                  Also from ProMed:


                  "I think this go around, China has been completely transparent. SARS was a lesson on the need for transparency. I’ve been very impressed with them. They’ve been putting out data whenever they’ve had it. I think in Wuhan, what happened was they were just overwhelmed. And they were very honest. They admitted that they basically didn’t have the surge capacity to handle the volume, which is why they ended up building two hospitals in less than a week."

                  March 5, 2020

                  https://www.oliverwymanforum.com/cit...ronavirus.html
                  Attached Files

                  Comment


                  • sharon sanders
                    sharon sanders commented
                    Editing a comment
                    No JJackson. ProMed's first post was a media source. Not official. They are no better than us. And there was hard evidence of a pneumonia outbreak. On December 31 the Wuhan Municipal Committee published an official notice, which is our 12th post on that thread, also dated December 31, 2019. https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/...851#post821851

                  • JJackson
                    JJackson commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Sharon granted there was a problem in that there were enough cases of pneumonia to be noticed and China reported that and we, and others, picked it up around the 30th but after that there was speculation until the 9th when a SL Corona virus was announced.

                  • sharon sanders
                    sharon sanders commented
                    Editing a comment
                    No. We picked up some weird pneumonia before December 30. As usual with China, it is not always clear what you are seeing because they cover it up first. And - we let the public see how the sausage is made. I am proud of that. We do not have private conferences and then decide what gets published with an emphasis on government sanctioned news. Each participant here makes their own decision on what to post. Sometimes we meander around on a thread but that is the real search for the truth. We take the reader along on the journey with us.
                    https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/...outbreak-trend

                • COVID-19 Vaccination Tracker

                  Data are from the CDC COVID Data Tracker, last updated on 02/03

                  Total doses distributed is the number of vaccine doses that have been distributed to facilities across the United States by the federal government.
                  Number received first dose is the number of individuals in the United States recorded in CDC database to have received the first dose of a COVID-19 vaccine.
                  Number received second dose is the number of individuals in the United States recorded in CDC database to have received the second dose of a COVID-19 vaccine.
                  Newly distributed per 100,000 is the number of vaccine doses per 100,000 that have been distributed on 02/03 to facilities across the United States by the federal government.
                  Percent of population partially vaccinated (one dose received) is the percentage of the total US population that has received at least one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine according to CDC database. The total US population is derived from the Census.
                  Percent of population fully vaccinated (two doses received) is the percentage of the total US population that has received at two doses of a COVID-19 vaccine according to CDC database. The total US population is derived from the Census.

                  Vaccination Status in The United States

                  https://covid19.emory.edu/Vaccine-Tracker

                  Comment


                  • I found this article informative. Comments by doctors were interesting and give insight into how much they do to try to protect themselves. As one hints, they can't share all this with patients since it isn't officially approved.

                    https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/...ovid-19-spread
                    _____________________________________________

                    Ask Congress to Investigate COVID Origins and Government Response to Pandemic H.R. 834

                    “‘i love myself.’ the quietest. simplest. most powerful. revolution ever.” ---- nayyirah waheed

                    (My posts are not intended as advice or professional assessments of any kind.)
                    Never forget Excalibur.

                    Comment



                    • I posted this new paper from the CDC about double masking because it is an official document and we are in pandemic.

                      CDC - Maximizing Fit for Cloth and Medical Procedure Masks to Improve Performance and Reduce SARS-CoV-2 Transmission and Exposure, 2021 - February 10, 2021

                      Comment


                      • Emily
                        Emily commented
                        Editing a comment
                        I'm just waiting for the study on using Gorilla Glue to improve the seal.

                    • Here's a report about WHO saying that global numbers are going down overall. But they say some countries numbers are going up. I would think that cases will go up everywhere as more contagious viruses evolve as we try to suppress transmission.

                      https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/10/healt...ntl/index.html
                      _____________________________________________

                      Ask Congress to Investigate COVID Origins and Government Response to Pandemic H.R. 834

                      “‘i love myself.’ the quietest. simplest. most powerful. revolution ever.” ---- nayyirah waheed

                      (My posts are not intended as advice or professional assessments of any kind.)
                      Never forget Excalibur.

                      Comment


                      • sharon sanders
                        sharon sanders commented
                        Editing a comment
                        It appears global viral outbreaks occur in sporadic waves throughout. Not all areas experience outbreaks at the same time. It is rolling.

                      • JJackson
                        JJackson commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Emily the numbers have gone down over the last week in each of the WHO regions and the deaths went down in all but SE Asia, but they only rose 1% and the region only accounts for 1% of cases. If you look at the daily case count maps for the world it has gone up and down a number of times. By country, region or or any defined area it peaks and falls but not in unison so the some areas are going down while others have a resurgence.
                        I have not seen any convincing evidence that any of the new variants are either more contagious or more pathogenic. What they are showing is a selective advantage over the wild types in a mixed population of seropositive and naive hosts.

                      • Emily
                        Emily commented
                        Editing a comment
                        That sounds hopeful, JJackson, thanks! I probably saw some fearful hype in an article. I do actually agree with you and Sharon about fluctuations and waves. My last sentence meant to express that, but I see it was rather ambiguous.
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