Discussion thread V - COVID-19 (new coronavirus)

[bertrand789]

Emily, de la guerre virologique, en oeuvre, ? cause de petites t?tes qui ne devraient plus jamais avoir aucun financement :

suite ? l'introduction de Ameiurus melas

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ameiurus_melas

avec la complicit? des "experts", car cela ne franchit pas les mers tout seul, cela a pourri la vie de bien des personnes. Et, aucun expert, m?me avec beaucoup de subvention, n'a su g?rer.

Ensuite, suite ? la r?introduction de :
Le silure

https://aufildeleauenmeuse.eu/le-silure/

le probl?me a ?t? g?r?, mais, bien s?r, sans dire les vraies raisons. je crois avoir compris qu'il s'agit d'une histoire de virus, stock? de fa?on plus ou moins s?curis?e en bien des lieux.



Morale de cette histoire : Emily , tu souhaites que l'on t'offre, vu l'importance de cette production aux Etats unis , des juv?niles de Silurus glanis europ?en, un tube ? essai , ou certains pr?l?vements congel?s ou ?


Morale ? tous les pro de la fausse compassion pour les animaux: ils sont morts, les am?ricains, dans le silence et personne n'a jamais rien dit, ce que je d?plore...

[bertrand789]

Kathy, en se penchant un peu sur la g?n?tique, connue de bien trop peu, et ou en l'aidant un peu de fa?on discr?te, on doit bien trouver un influenza, ou , un peu sp?cifique de la dinde de Noel ou des sauvages.

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinde_de_No%C3%ABl

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey_(bird)

Les programmes, soit disant ONE HEALTH, qui ont ?t? initi?s, ? tord, c'est le bon moyen, pour les collecter, non ?


Pour maitriser dans un fleuve que j'aime bien, et vu son contenu, au niveau de ce truc : la carpe : un truc non d?fini ? la vente en France: la d?nomination scientifique , pour ce truc , c'est non ? ce stade :
La, ou les ? carpes ?, des intrus depuis un moment…
https://aufildeleauenmeuse.eu/la-ou-...uis-un-moment/

Pour enfin revoir les vraies, les rh?ophiles, dans le fleuve il faut certainement laisser des "touristes", etc, ...: lacher dans le fleuve, certaines japonaises, vu ce qu'elle portent ?

morale: quand on emp?che les vieux d'aller ? la p?che au bord de l'eau, en imposant un mauvais confinement d'une part, et d'autre part que l'on laisse de mauvais enseignants pr?tentieux ? souhait, faire n'importe quoi dans le cadre des f?d?rations de p?ches, ils ( ceux avec qui l'on parle au bord de l'eau) regardent un peu les causes et ce qui doit ?tre sugg?r?...

[Emily]

MILAN

- Covid-19 "from a clinical point of view no longer exists". The San Raffaele head of Milan Alberto Zangrillo, director of intensive care, is convinced of this. Words that immediately ignited the controversy among the experts, with expressions of bewilderment and condemnation especially by the scientists who are part of the technical scientific committee.

There's a few opinions offered below. One is that early treatment is helping. Another below is that we have more time on our hands to notice the milder cases. If the virus itself really hasn't changed, then it was a mouse that roared too loudly.

https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-comments-reported-in-the-media-by-prof-alberto-zangrillo-about-the-covid-19-virus-in-italy/

Prof Martin Hibberd, Professor of Emerging Infectious Disease, London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine, said:
“One explanation for this change in observations might be because of a declining number of cases, where that has been achieved. We know that the virus can infect many (and perhaps the majority) of people without producing any obvious or serious symptoms, while even in those with clear symptoms, 80% have mild disease. During a major outbreak, those mild or inapparent cases are likely to be overlooked. However, in a situation where the numbers of severe cases are falling, there may be time to start observing people with less severe symptoms – giving the impression that the virus is changing.”

[bertrand789]

sharon sanders
Russia embraces its new global role in pork

https://www.pigprogress.net/World-of...-pork-588356E/

[Pathfinder]

MILAN

- Covid-19 "from a clinical point of view no longer exists". The San Raffaele head of Milan Alberto Zangrillo, director of intensive care, is convinced of this. Words that immediately ignited the controversy among the experts, with expressions of bewilderment and condemnation especially by the scientists who are part of the technical scientific committee.

Translation Google

Coronavirus, experts divided on Zangrillo: the truth of the WHO

"Coronavirus does not exist"? WHO's reply to Zangrillo's statements

June 2 2020

The latest statements by Alberto Zangrillo have been around the world in recent days: "Coronavirus does not exist" , the doctor said, causing a sensation among the scientific community, and beyond. However, he replied punctually to the WHO , trying to clarify the matter and providing further details on the current trend of the virus.

Zangrillo's words
There is a lot of talk about Dr. Alberto Zangrillo in these hours. Responsible for intensive care at the San Raffaele hospital in Milan in Lombardy (the region most affected by the pandemic in Italy), many newspapers and newspapers are writing about him because of his latest claims on Coronavirus .

According to the doctor, a study carried out by a colleague of his would show that the virus is losing its potency and that - therefore - "no longer exists clinically". The research is by Dr. Massimo Clementi, director of the Microbiology and Virology Laboratory of San Raffaele hospital, and should be published shortly.

"The swabs that were performed in the last 10 days showed a viral load in quantitative terms that was absolutely infinitesimal compared to those performed on patients a month or two ago," said Zangrillo on Sunday May 31 during his intervention in Rai.

These statements, however, were not liked by Franco Locatelli, Italian physician and academic President of the Superior Council of Health, who in turn, as reported by Ansa, said: "I can only express great surprise and absolute amazement for the statements made by the Professor Zangrillo. Just look at the number of new cases confirmed every day to have evidence of the persistent circulation of the virus in Italy ".

The authorities urge caution
Zangrillo's words, in fact, come at a very delicate moment. In view of the reopenings on June 3 , the Government is currently engaged in the management of Phase 2 ( here the QuiFinanza special) with an important objective: to allow travel and travel but always in total safety. Diminishing therefore the dangerousness of the virus could be more than dangerous for the security of Italy.

For this reason Sandra Zampa , Undersecretary to the Ministry of Health, said in a note: "Pending scientific evidence to support the thesis that the virus has disappeared, I would invite those who claim to be sure not to confuse the Italians ".

WHO's reply
The World Health Organization also distanced itself from Zangrillo's statements , which on Monday 1 June denied the news that the virus was becoming less lethal. "This is still a killer virus , " said Michael Ryan, executive director of the WHO health emergency program at the press conference. “We have to be exceptionally careful not to create the feeling that, suddenly, the virus, by its own will, has now decided to be less pathogenic. It's not like that at all, "he added.

Zangrillo, however, is not the only doctor to believe that the virus is weakening . Matteo Bassetti, director of the infectious disease clinic of the San Martino hospital in Genoa, also said that Coronavirus is no longer the same, but only on the basis of his experience (he would therefore not have scientific evidence to support his theory) .

However, WHO said it was willing to examine in detail studies and data that are able to demonstrate the opposite, reiterating however that to date the trend and danger of Coronavirus could be determined by the level of exposure to the virus of an individual. This means, as has been explained, that "the virus may not be becoming less potent" but that we, as a community, are successfully reducing the number, intensity and frequency of exposure to Covid.

https://quifinanza.it/editoriali/coronavirus-esperti-zangrillo-verita-oms/388911/

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Coronavirus, here is the San Raffaele study quoted by Zangrillo: ?Ten times weaker than in March?

Monday 1 June 2020


" Coronavirus no longer exists clinically." With this sentence Professor Alberto Zangrillo has triggered a real uproar within the Italian scientific community. Yet the doctor, director of the intensive care unit at San Raffaele in Milan , certainly had no intention of stating that the virus no longer circulates, which is absolutely false. In fact, what Professor Zangrillo meant is that Sars-CoV-2 , within two months, has lost its viral load and is replicating much more slowlythus causing a sharp drop in infections. This is demonstrated by a study conducted right inside the San Raffaele and carried out from March to May, in the two most dramatic months of the epidemic in Lombardy.

IN DEPTH

The study , coordinated by virologist and microbiologist Massimo Clementi and carried out on 200 Covid patients hospitalized at San Raffaele, will be published shortly in the journal Clinical chemistry and laboratory medicine. As TgCom24 also explains, the research has made it possible to establish that the virus has not changed, but has lost its viral load and now the replication rate is much lower than in March. The practical demonstration comes from the molecular analysis starting from the swabs carried out on the patients in March, when the dramatic impact of the coronavirus had led to the lockdown of all Italy, and in May, when a progressive relaxation of the restrictions was possible. All this, on the other hand, is also reflected in the lower commitment of intensive care.

Massimo Clementi , coordinator of the study, explained: ?There is a macroscopic difference between Covid patients hospitalized in March and those hospitalized in May, the viral load and the replication rate of the virus was 10 times less than two months before. Other viruses, such as that of HIV or those of hepatitis B or C, have behaved in this way: the greater their replication, the faster the progression of the disease. I don't know if this will be enough to explain the observed clinical difference, but we will continue the study on other patients and, thanks to Guido Silvestri, we will also extend it to patients in the United States ".

Last updated: 23:50

https://www.ilmattino.it/primopiano/..._citato_prof_z angrillo_dieci_volte_piu_debole_rispetto_marzo-5262668.html

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Coronavirus, viral load and mutation: what we know today

In hospitals throughout Italy there are fewer and fewer serious cases, what is going on? The virus has not gone away but something may have changed

by Cristina Marrone

Less aggressive virus or even gone. Presumed mutations and less strong viral load. These days we are chasing announcements and news about the coronavirus, which finally seems to give us respite. But what do we really know today? In the meantime the virus has never disappeared . Nobody ever said it, not even Professor Alberto Zangrillo , director of Anesthesia at the San Raffaele hospital in Milan who cited a study being published in the Clinical Chemistry and Laboratory medicine of his colleague Massimo Clementi , director of the Laboratory of Microbiology and Virology. Professor Zangrillo reported that, based on the data collected, "the virus is clinically non-existent, disappeared". It means that the new ICU and sub ICU admissions are few or no. In the last few weeks, few patients have arrived in hospitals, including in Lombardy, all with mild symptoms.


The virus tries to adapt to the host
However, the virus is far from gone, it still seems to kill less . Because? When a microorganism reaches man it looks for a way to adapt to the host. The interest of the virus is to survive inside a body and then spread to other subjects, which cannot happen if the patient dies from the infection. Roughly speaking, if he kills the infected too quickly, he has one less "tank" to spread from . Here then, less "bad" variants may have started to circulate, which is precisely why they are more likely to resist in the long run, since they save the life of the organism that hosts them.

The viral load
Among the hypotheses also that Sars-CoV-2 has a less powerful viral load . It is always supported by the San Raffaele study that analyzed 200 patients by comparing the viral load present in the samples taken with the swab: it emerged that s i was greatly weakened in May patients compared to those admitted to the Milanese hospital in March. However, some scientists point out that at the beginning of the epidemic, due to the tsunami of patients, swabs were made only on the most serious cases in which the viral load of Covid-19 is on average 60 times higher than that of mild or asymptomatic cases, tested only lately. Others argue that the least viral load isdue to all the precautions taken during the lockdown period , from hand washing to social distancing. Staying away and also using masks, fewer viral particles circulate than in March when we did not know how to defend ourselves from coughs and sneezes from infected subjects.


No genetic mutation
The lower replicability observed (10 times less than that of March patients) could instead explain why the disease worsens less quickly. On one aspect, scientists seem to agree almost all: the virus does not seem to have changed significantly from a genetic point of view . Of almost 35 thousand sequences entered from all over the world in the database, to date, none goes in this direction. Since the virus seems less aggressive, can we abandon the habits of social distancing? Absolutely not precisely because these measures have certainly contributed to what we are observing today. And leaving is a moment.

June 2, 2020 (change June 2, 2020 | 09:30)

https://www.corriere.it/salute/malattie_infettive/20_giugno_02/coronavirus-carica-virale-mutazione-che-cosa-sappiamo-oggi-46e9d7c8-a426-11ea-b19d-c124828d4b5b.shtml?refresh_ce-cp

[Mary Wilson]

Autopsy: George Floyd was carrier of COVID-19, had no lung damage or symptoms

Published 1 hour ago
Updated 54 mins ago
Death of George Floyd
FOX 9

MINNEAPOLIS (FOX 9) - George Floyd had tested positive for COVID-19, but was an asymptomatic carrier without lung damage, according to a new report from the Hennepin County Medical Examiner.

The Medical Examiner’s office released a detailed report Wednesday evening that showed Floyd had tested positive for the virus on April 3, but did not exhibit any symptoms and did not have any lung damage. A nasal swab test administered during the autopsy confirmed that he was likely an asymptomatic carrier of the virus.

https://www.fox9.com/news/autopsy-george-floyd-was-carrier-of-covid-19-had-no-lung-damage-or-symptoms

[Mary Wilson]

My personal comment:

Mr George Floyd was murdered on May 25 2020.

Mr George Floyd had tested positive for Covid-19 on May 25th at the Hospital.

Today, June 3rd, Mr George Floyd's Autopsy Report has been made available to the public.

And also Today, the public was informed Mr George Floyd had tested Positive Covid-19.

A 10 Dap lapse.
__________________________________________________ _______________________

Former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin transferred to Oak Park Heights state prison

Author: Dana Thiede
Published: 10:17 AM CDT June 1, 2020
Updated: 12:07 PM CDT June 1, 2020

https://www.kare11.com/article/news/local/george-floyd/former-minneapolis-police-officer-derek-chauvin-transferred-to-oak-park-heights-state-prison/89-99c25a43-342b-4989-aa07-46e7a0174ded

[sharon sanders]

Autopsy: George Floyd was carrier of COVID-19, had no lung damage or symptoms

Published 1 hour ago
Updated 54 mins ago
Death of George Floyd
FOX 9

MINNEAPOLIS (FOX 9) - George Floyd had tested positive for COVID-19, but was an asymptomatic carrier without lung damage, according to a new report from the Hennepin County Medical Examiner.

The Medical Examiner’s office released a detailed report Wednesday evening that showed Floyd had tested positive for the virus on April 3, but did not exhibit any symptoms and did not have any lung damage. A nasal swab test administered during the autopsy confirmed that he was likely an asymptomatic carrier of the virus.

https://www.fox9.com/news/autopsy-ge...ge-or-symptoms

A lot here.

First of all - condolences to all of the friends and family of Mr. Floyd. A shocking video.

Apparently Mr. Floyd was diagnosed on April 3, 2020. It is estimated that people can test positive for many weeks after infection. There is some speculation that people are not contagious for that entire time. We are still learning about COVID-19. He tested positive again on May 25 and that information was released today on June 3 which is 10 days later.

In addition, if he had COVID-19 since at least April 3, he may have had some physical damage to his circulatory system from an inflammatory immune response. It is said he had no symptoms. This is very significant as his autopsy indicated heart and circulatory damage. His family said previously that he was healthy.

It might be possible that many people who have had a COVID-19 infection have some damage to a system in their body but are unaware of it.

Again, so sorry for the loss of Mr. Floyd. The Declaration of Human Rights has been part of our mission statement since 2006. link

[Mary Wilson]

Haven't read too many autopsy reports, but in my opinion, somewhat "average healthy" organs for a 46 year old male.
George Floyd Autopsy Report
Uploaded bylydentv
Description:Autopsy Report for George Floyd released by Hennepin County Medical Examiner on June 3, 2020.Full description

https://www.scribd.com/document/464270926/George-Floyd-Autopsy-Report

[sharon sanders]

I am not a medical doctor but this is on the report: A) Arteriosclerotic heart disease, multifocal, severe B) Hypertensive heart disease.

[Emily]

This says Mr. Floyd had a clinical history of hypertension so cardio findings could have been longstanding, (prior to his COVID infection and if some additional damage happened from the infection, it might have improved in time.) The lawyers will battle out the medical details, but the inexplicable way his pleas for breath were ignored will haunt witnesses, family and everyone who sees that video forever.

https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/hennepinus/residents/public-safety/documents/Autopsy_2020-3700_Floyd.pdf

[bertrand789]

D?pistage obligatoire dans tous les ?levages

https://www.lepoint.fr/sante/coronavirus-les-pays-bas-vont-abattre-plus-de-10-000-visons-contamines-04-06-2020-2378512_40.php

Il se fait quoi aux Etats Unis ?

[Gert van der Hoek]

Convalescent plasma disappoints in Chinese trial

Infusions of antibody-rich blood plasma from people who have recovered from the coronavirus, so-called convalescent plasma, failed to make a difference in a study of hospitalized patients in China, researchers reported on Wednesday in the Journal of the American Medical Association. In a randomized trial involving 103 COVID-19 patients, convalescent plasma made no difference in the time it took to show signs of improvement or in rates of death at 28 days versus a placebo.

There were some potentially encouraging results among patients who were "severely ill" but not sick enough to be in the intensive care unit. They recovered roughly five days faster if they got the plasma treatment, and more of them improved within 28 days of starting treatment.

The study was somewhat hampered as researchers were not able to enroll as many patients as they had hoped because the epidemic started to come under control in their region, and it was stopped early. Had they been able to enroll as many patients as originally planned, the results might have been different. (bit.ly/3cwmAtt, bit.ly/2MpNWa7)

See also link to study: https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/...clinical-trial

[sharon sanders]

I hope he is right. I have no idea.


UPMC doctor says COVID-19 has become ‘less prevalent’ and isn’t making people as sick

Updated Jun 05, 6:41 AM; Posted Jun 04, 1:24 PM

snip

The proportion of people with COVID-19 getting so sick they need a breathing ventilator has fallen, according to Yealy.

“We see all of this as evidence that COVID-19 cases are less severe than when this first started,” he said.

Yealy said those observations apply to western and central Pennsylvania along with communities in New York and Maryland served by UPMC.

snip

Yealy said he doesn’t know exactly why the prevalence and severity of COVID-19 seems to have fallen. He said it likely reflects an interplay of things including weather, possible genetic changes in the virus, people watching themselves more closely for symptoms, and better medical decisions and treatment.


https://www.pennlive.com/news/2020/0...ss-severe.html

[Ronan Kelly]

To April 27 US reported 55,772 fatalities from 985,374 cases - 17.668 cases per death.
Since April 28 US reported 54,346 fatalities from 931,706 cases - 17.114 cases per death.
No obvious conclusion to be drawn there.

[Mary Wilson]

CDC says some Americans surveyed have gargled bleach to prevent coronavirus

POSTED 12:24 PM, JUNE 6, 2020, BY FOX TELEVISION STATIONS

According to the CDC report:

• 19% of people have applied bleach to food items like fruits and vegetables
• 18% have used household cleaning and disinfectant products on their hands and skin
• 10% have ‘misted’ their bodies with a cleaning or disinfectant spray
• 6% have inhaled vapors from household cleaners or disinfectants (6%);
• 4% admitted to drinking or gargling diluted bleach solutions, soapy water, and other cleaning and disinfectant solutions

https://fox6now.com/2020/06/06/cdc-says-some-americans-surveyed-have-gargled-bleach-to-prevent-coronavirus/

[cartski]

So wiping down oranges and apples is not a good idea? If not, how should prevention be done?

[bertrand789]

"Tout pays ou individu, quelle que soit sa g?ographie, sa fortune ou ses ambitions politiques, est ?gal. La nouvelle crise du coronavirus arrache toutes les illusions fantaisistes et les choses superficielles et montre la valeur durable de la vie humaine."
https://www.agoravox.fr/tribune-libr...emie-de-224942

Vu ce pr?alable, nous avons aussi droit ? ceci :
Plus de deux tonnes de civelles saisies par les polices europ?ennes pour une valeur de 6,2 millions d'euros

https://www.rtbf.be/info/societe/det...os?id=10515262

Cela dure depuis bien trop longtemps. De mon point de vue, ceci n'existe que parce que les pays destinataires, connus, ne font pas leur part ...

Il faut donner encore des millions de dollars ? des docteurs en philosophie et x crises, ou il y a des moyens moins co?teux et plus efficient ?

Ceci n'est pas une intrusion dans le fonctionnement des autres pays, juste, un souhait que le respect de l'autre soit un minimum en place de tous les cot?s.

[Pathfinder]

Suddenly, Public Health Officials Say Social Justice Matters More Than Social Distance

For months, health experts told Americans to stay home. Now, many are encouraging the public to join mass protests.

By DAN DIAMOND
06/04/2020 05:19 PM EDT
...
It’s a message echoed by media outlets and some of the most prominent public health experts in America, like former Centers for Disease Control and Prevention director Tom Frieden, who loudly warned against efforts to rush reopening but is now supportive of mass protests.
...
“I think what’s lost on people is that there have been real sacrifices made during lockdown,” Holden told me. “People who couldn’t bury loved ones. Small businesses destroyed. How can a health expert look those people in the eye and say it was worth it now?”

Some members of the medical community acknowledged they’re grappling with the U-turn in public health advice, too. “It makes it clear that all along there were trade-offs between details of lockdowns and social distancing and other factors that the experts previously discounted and have now decided to reconsider and rebalance,” said Jeffrey Flier, the former dean of Harvard Medical School. Flier pointed out that the protesters were also engaging in behaviors, like loud singing in close proximity, which CDC has repeatedly suggested could be linked to spreading the virus.

“At least for me, the sudden change in views of the danger of mass gatherings has been disorienting, and I suspect it has been for many Americans,” he told me.
...
“Many public health experts have already severely undermined the power and influence of their prior message,” countered Flier. “We were exposed to continuous daily Covid death counts, and infections/deaths were presented as preeminent concerns compared to all other considerations—until nine days ago,” he added.

“Overnight, behaviors seen as dangerous and immoral seemingly became permissible due to a ‘greater need,’” Flier said.
...
That means a collision between the protests and coronavirus is coming, which will force decisions big and small. Will local leaders need to reimpose restrictions when cases go up? Will that advice be trusted?
...
It’s a reminder of a line often heard from medical experts: Public health should be above politics.
...
“The virus doesn’t care about the nature of a protest, no matter how deserving the cause is,” Holden said.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/06/04/public-health-protests-301534

[curiosity]

I don't recall any of the public health scientists saying it is ok. Politicians and media, maybe, but not scientists.

In CA, USA where I live, there have been very few cases of COVID. In the early stages, it was not the local Health Officers recommendation to close schools. Instead, it was pressure from the Teachers Unions to the Governor to close all schools.
The tragedy in the entire event is that political decisions are being made without science - and without true leadership.

[gsgs]

I can't find :
Xu, L. 'The analysis of 6 patients with severe pneumonia caused by unknown viruses' Masters
thesis, Kunming Medical University, China, (2013).
5

6 miners in a batcave supposedly infected by a RaTG13-like virus, 3 died .
So, the new cleavage site in SARS2 may hve made it _less_ severe but more transmissable ?

https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202005.0322/v2

> The cause of the pneumonia was diagnosed to be primarily of a viral origin (related to bats)

how did they know viral origin, if not by sequencing ? They probably would have sequenced
them, wrt. all that SARS-research and the following extensive examinations of the mine
by the WIV resulting in 152 bat-sequences

[sharon sanders]

Maybe send an email to the authors and ask them how to find this document, or ask them for a copy.

[Emily]

Good find, gsgs! The link works for me Sharon and there is a PDF download link with the whole paper there.