Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Discussion thread IV - COVID-19 (new coronavirus)

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Report: Wuhan Funeral Homes Burned Coronavirus Victims Alive
    Virginia Mayo/AP
    7 Apr 2020105:38
    Locals in Wuhan, where the Chinese coronavirus pandemic originated, have heard screams coming from funeral home furnaces, and some treated in hospitals say they saw workers put living coronavirus patients in body bags, Radio Free Asia (RFA) reported on Monday.

    RFA noted that it could not independently verify that the Chinese Communist Party was burning coronavirus patients alive, nor has the Communist Party confirmed or denied the rumors. Yet the rumors persist that, to make room for new patients in Wuhan’s overcrowded hospitals, medical staff chose older patients less likely to survive the infection and shipped them to incinerators while they were still alive and conscious... https://www.inquisitr.com/5985896/wu...-burned-alive/
    Last edited by sharon sanders; April 7, 2020, 10:09 PM.
    CSI:WORLD http://swineflumagazine.blogspot.com/

    treyfish2004@yahoo.com

    Comment



    • Now we are encouraging you to start a garden. Even in an apartment. COVID-19 will linger all year. Limit the # of times you have to go out for fresh fruit & veggies.

      Order online seeds, etc.

      Pandemic Garden forum (updating in process):

      https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/personal-family-professional-emergency-preparedness/long-term-preps-incl-gardening…

      #coronavirus

      Comment


      • A shout-out to all of our gardeners. Please take a look at our Pandemic Gardening forum and update.


        https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/...incl-gardening



        Thanks!

        Comment


        • I wonder if the importance of bacterial co-infections is being underestimated?

          https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/...-clearly-exist
          _____________________________________________

          Ask Congress to Investigate COVID Origins and Government Response to Pandemic H.R. 834

          i love myself. the quietest. simplest. most powerful. revolution ever. ---- nayyirah waheed
          Governments don't have or own souls.

          (My posts are not intended as advice or professional assessments of any kind.)
          Never forget Excalibur.

          Comment


          • Emily
            Emily commented
            Editing a comment
            Then if antibiotics are helping a greater percentage of cases, (or could if they were used), there would be another mechanism. Tetano posted an article about macroglides being thought to have anti-inflammatory and anti-viral properties. Azithromycin is one.

          • cartski
            cartski commented
            Editing a comment
            But can a bacterial infection also precede the CoV-2 infection? Victim has a nasal infection or upper respiro infection, with a typical long tail of coughing during recovery, and the is more susceptible to viral infection or worse outcomes? and more of a “asymptomatic” carrier because the cough is self-diagnosed by the prior bacterial infection?

          • Emily
            Emily commented
            Editing a comment
            I think there could be a synergy as in influenza and staph. https://mbio.asm.org/content/7/6/e02068-16.short
            I suspect periodontal disease, (more common in aging), could be a factor, too. Oral/nasal/toothbrush hygiene during flu/URI season might be important.

        • Sorry, for personal mental health, I haven’t been putting that much time into reading deeply into the FT posts. So likely this is dealt with elsewhere.

          Press has been relying on IHME estimates, recently for Ireland https://www.irishtimes.com/news/irel...down-1.4223043 and with comments about the US. As well, there’s a lot of hostile discussion on a Facebook group about the Tour Divide, which is an ultra-distance bicycle event from Banff to Antelope Wells New Mexico. Some, like me, think it’s foolish to start the trip, typically in June, and unwanted by the small communities, border rules, etc. Others are pointing to IHME estimates in Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, New Mexico to argue that fatal peaks will be rescued very soon and projections end the outbreak by July anyway (so just delay the start). I think that is bunk - loca (Manitoba) experts are talking about no real end to severe restriction until a vaccine arrives 12-18 months away.

          But the real question is what’s the reliability assessment of IHME’s projections? Do they make sense, are they skewed by lack of data, or are they influenced by wishful thinking politics?

          Thanks,

          J.

          Comment


          • sharon sanders
            sharon sanders commented
            Editing a comment
            ...unless it mutates...

          • JJackson
            JJackson commented
            Editing a comment
            Sadly I think Sharon is right. One point that may help HCWs and other high risk individuals is plasma. Herd immunity is not going to saves us anytime soon as our one million or so cases is 0.01% of the population in 3 months. That means years at this level to get anywhere near herd immunity even as a breaking effect. I think outcomes may be much better once we get reliable large scale trial data. Combination therapy with a mix of timed immune suppressants looks promising. Serology data should become available soon and we might get lucky and find there have been more asymptomatic cases than we thought.

          • Emily
            Emily commented
            Editing a comment
            Remember it's not over until Brunhilda sings. Don't put down unrefundable deposits until that happens. IHME is a reputable group founded by the Gates Foundation. They won't sell the pandemic short, but when data changes, so will projections.


        • FluTrackers.com
          @FluTrackers

          16s

          We are asking all of followers who are religious to please not go to Easter Sunday services in person.

          Please attend a virtual service online.

          Social distancing of 6 feet is not enough if someone has a cough.

          Singing can spread disease.

          Please.

          https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/ideas-on-how-to-protect-yourself-from-new-coronavirus-2019-ncov/discussion-how-to-make-a-mask/846529-jama-turbulent-gas-clouds-and-respiratory-pathogen-emissions-potential-implications-for-reducing-transmission-of-covid-19

          Comment


          • Here are two pieces of interesting (but concerning) data. Seems to me that there must be either a second point of entry & receptor / antibody mechanism involved here, or some other immune mechanism is at work here that we do not yet fully understand - either way a substantial proportion of individuals do not generate an antibody response to the S protein via ACE2. This raises concerns of potential ADE mechanisms, and its certainly going to present challenges to vaccine development and may explain ELISA failures.. they may not be failing at all. It may also explain potential for rapid re-infections.

            Wu F et al. Neutralizing antibody responses to SARS-CoV-2 in a COVID-19 recovered patient cohort and their implications. medRxiv 2020.03.30.20047365; doi: https://doi.org/10.1101/2020.03.30.20047365 and

            Zhao J et al. Antibody responses to SARS-CoV-2 in patients of novel coronavirus disease 2019, Clinical Infectious Diseases, , ciaa344, https://doi.org/10.1093/cid/ciaa344

            Comment


            • JJackson
              JJackson commented
              Editing a comment
              The lower neutralizing anti-body count in younger patients could possibly leave them open to reinfection but I think the second infection would be a lot milder. The NAbs may not be at a high enough level but the memory T and B cells should rapidly up production. I do not expect protection to be life long for anybody, much like flu. Pooled serum should give adequate titers for short term protection, how often you would need top-ups I have no idea. It would not be surprising if SAR-2 could use a secondary binding site should the spike RBD be blocked by a NAb, but I doubt it would be a very effective method of entry so the immune system would have plenty of time to get on top of the infection.
              Last edited by JJackson; April 9, 2020, 04:46 PM.

            • Vibrant62
              Vibrant62 commented
              Editing a comment
              JJackson Seems I may be correct in some of my thinking, I hope not all. https://www.nature.com/articles/s414...0424-9#ref-CR9
              Last edited by Vibrant62; April 14, 2020, 07:06 AM.

            • Vibrant62
              Vibrant62 commented
              Editing a comment
              Also SARS-CoV-2 invades host cells via a novel route: CD147-spike protein
              https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1...03.14.988345v1

          • Blow to Britain's hopes for coronavirus antibody testing as study finds a THIRD of recovered patients have barely-detectable evidence they have had the virus already
            • Nearly third of patients have very low levels of antibodies, Chinese study found
            • Antibodies not detected at all in 10 people, raising fears they could be reinfected
            • Explains why UK Government repeatedly delayed rolling them out to the public

            By CONNOR BOYD HEALTH REPORTER FOR MAILONLINE

            PUBLISHED: 06:49 EDT, 9 April 2020 | UPDATED: 07:00 EDT, 9 April 2020
            https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...survivors.html
            CSI:WORLD http://swineflumagazine.blogspot.com/

            treyfish2004@yahoo.com

            Comment


            • "Chilling" or good news?


              Only 6% of coronavirus cases actually being detected, claims chilling study


              If German researchers are correct that worldwide cases have been "dramatically understated" due to insufficient testing, as many as 25 million people could have Covid-19

              A chilling new study claims just 6% of all coronavirus cases are actually being detected.

              If true, this means up to 25 million people around the world could have Covid-19, far more than official estimations.

              Researchers from G?ttingen University in Germany claim a huge proportion of infected people are flying under the radar.

              Dr Christian Bommer and Professor Sebastian Vollmer used estimates of virus mortality and time until death from a recent study published in The Lancet Infectious Diseases in an attempt to verify the accuracy of official case records.

              Their findings indicate countries have discovered, on average, only about 6% of their coronavirus infections.

              Insufficient and delayed testing is responsible for this enormous underreporting of cases, they say.

              This could explain why countries like Italy and Spain have experienced a much higher mortality rate than Germany – because far fewer cases are being recorded, it skews the data and creates the illusion that a higher proportion of Covid-19 patients are dying than they really are.

              If German researchers are correct that worldwide cases have been "dramatically understated" due to insufficient testing, as many as 25 million people could have Covid-19
              ?Addressing chronic disease is an issue of human rights ? that must be our call to arms"
              Richard Horton, Editor-in-Chief The Lancet

              ~~~~ Twitter:@GertvanderHoek ~~~ GertvanderHoek@gmail.com ~~~

              Comment


              • Emily
                Emily commented
                Editing a comment
                I think this could be good news in the long run.

            • More good news?

              Massachusetts sewage suggests more than 100K coronavirus cases in state: MIT lab

              Just one section of Massachusetts could have more than 100,000 coronavirus cases — many times more than the entire state has identified at this point, according to an MIT-associated study of local sewage.

              Biobot Analytics, which is a lab associated with the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, published research this week that an analysis of sewage from a treatment facility in “a large metropolitan area in the state of Massachusetts” suggested that many more people potentially have the highly contagious disease than tests have confirmed.

              “On March 25, the area represented by the sample had approximately 446 confirmed cases of Covid-19,” Biobot researchers wrote Wednesday in a post about their research. “Based on our sewage analysis, we estimate that up to 115,000 people are infected and shedding the SARS-CoV-2 virus.”

              Just one section of Massachusetts could have more than 100,000 coronavirus cases, many times more than the entire state has identified at this point, according to an MIT-associated study of local sewage.
              ?Addressing chronic disease is an issue of human rights ? that must be our call to arms"
              Richard Horton, Editor-in-Chief The Lancet

              ~~~~ Twitter:@GertvanderHoek ~~~ GertvanderHoek@gmail.com ~~~

              Comment


              • What if we are wrong about Covid-19?

                What if Covid-19 doesn't cause a "normal" pneumonia? But something else? Italian top doctor Gattinoni writes: Covid-19 Does Not Lead to a "Typical" Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome

                Edit: see also this interview with NY doctor: Do COVID-19 Vent Protocols Need a Second Look?

                What if Covid-19 chops off the iron of hemoglobin, so your red blood cells can't carry oxygen anymore: COVID-19: Attacks the 1-BetaChain of Hemoglobin and Captures the Porphyrin to Inhibit Human Heme Metabolism

                If the previous hypothesis is true, ventilation is futile, it can buy some time perhaps (see article above by Gattinoni c.s.).

                Now what? Perhaps this: Effectiveness of convalescent plasma therapy in severe COVID-19 patients

                ?Addressing chronic disease is an issue of human rights ? that must be our call to arms"
                Richard Horton, Editor-in-Chief The Lancet

                ~~~~ Twitter:@GertvanderHoek ~~~ GertvanderHoek@gmail.com ~~~

                Comment


                • From Germany: Preliminary results and conclusions of the COVID-19 case cluster study (Gangelt municipality)

                  A case study of the community of Gangelt,one of the strongest COVID19 affected places in Germany.

                  Some highlights:

                  - approx. 14% of the population had antibodies

                  - mortality rate 0.06%
                  , much lower than we were thinking?

                  ?Addressing chronic disease is an issue of human rights ? that must be our call to arms"
                  Richard Horton, Editor-in-Chief The Lancet

                  ~~~~ Twitter:@GertvanderHoek ~~~ GertvanderHoek@gmail.com ~~~

                  Comment


                  • cartski
                    cartski commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Doesn’t this contradict # 158 above - Britain found only 1/3 patients with antibodies?

                • African Americans may be dying from COVID-19 at a higher rate.

                  One factor may be:

                  "Sickle cell anemia is an inherited red blood cell disorder in which there aren't enough healthy red blood cells to carry oxygen throughout your body."

                  Mayo clinic
                  ?Addressing chronic disease is an issue of human rights ? that must be our call to arms"
                  Richard Horton, Editor-in-Chief The Lancet

                  ~~~~ Twitter:@GertvanderHoek ~~~ GertvanderHoek@gmail.com ~~~

                  Comment


                  • JJackson
                    JJackson commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I have been worried about Sickle cell anemia as a comorbidity factor in West Africa for a while. Selective pressure has reduced prevalence over time in the US but it is the decedents of slaves from Malarial areas who are likely to effected. This selection pressure has not reduced incidence in West Africa and I fear for the populations in these areas but doubt we will get very good data from lower income countries.
                    For those not familiar with sickle cell disease it is a recessive allele that gives some protection to malaria but at a cost. If the normal allele is N and sickle is S then
                    NN leaves you at risk of a poor outcome if you contract malaria
                    SS causes a malformation of the red blood cells and you struggle to breath
                    NS is a half way house giving some protection against malaria but at a small loss in the bloods ability to carry oxygen.
                    Under most normal conditions this is not a big problem but it is that last few % of oxygen saturation that makes all the difference for severe COVID cases.
                    Last edited by JJackson; April 10, 2020, 10:43 AM.

                • they are not telling us, how many people died in Gangelt or Heinsberg or Tirschenreuth from all causes
                  during COVID period.
                  It will probably come out later ... but the world needs to know it now in order to determine their measures.
                  We had reports from Italy,France,Spain,NY about increased mortality from all causes. >5times increased
                  during the wave in Bergamo,Brescia, , >2fold in Milan and presumably NYC so far (they stopped the increase ?!)
                  This is rarely being talked about. They just only talk about the official COVID-confirmed deaths.
                  We had been following influenza here since 2006 and we know, that the official flu-deaths are only
                  ~10% of the total deaths caused by a H3-wave.
                  I'm interested in expert panflu damage estimates
                  my current links: http://bit.ly/hFI7H ILI-charts: http://bit.ly/CcRgT

                  Comment


                  • Sally Furniss
                    Sally Furniss commented
                    Editing a comment
                    All cause mortality would be useful numbers for the areas where the special studies are occurring. gsgs are there figures available from Iceland yet?

                • #158 #159

                  "Stefansson said Iceland's randomized tests revealed that between 0.3%-0.8% of Iceland's population is infected with the respiratory illness, that about 50% of those who test positive for the virus are asymptomatic when they are tested, and that since mid-March the frequency of the virus among Iceland's general population who are not at the greatest risk – those who do not have underlying health conditions or signs and symptoms of COVID-19 – has either stayed stable or been decreasing."

                  https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/w...ta/2959797001/

                  Comment

                  Working...
                  X