Discussion thread III - Covid-19 (new coronavirus)

[cartski]

Hi,

it’s commonly known that normal flu is already circulating. As well, spring melt is happening in the north, so moulds, bacteria, dust particles are floating around and causing bacterial upper respiratory infections.

What happens when the prior disease overlaps COVID? In other words, is it imperative for the final outcomes that the prior viral or bacterial disease, or their drug treatments, be completed before COVID starts?

Many people in the “calm before the storm” period may be slow to seek medical attention for the prior disease because they don’t want to clog the system unnecessarily. Perhaps its a better strategy to get one’s body working properly right away, before the COVID wave hits.

Thanks,

J.

[cartski]

Hi,

Neophyte here. I saw the Lancet article, and the prior report from Wuhan that fatal patients had a high prevalence of hypertension.

To me, high blood pressure is common to most of the pre existing conditions: obesity, diabetes, CVD, etc. So it seems logical to do whatever one can, in this period of “calm before the storm” to dramatically improve blood pressure. That means blood pressure drugs or diet, etc.

But the ACE2 warning above, plus the info that Ibuprofen increases ACE2 activity, may mean that there’s a list of drugs that should not be prescribed for COVID. Diet and exercise is the only thing left to improve blood pressure before COVID disease begins.

Does that make sense?

[Emily]

First hello to the group! New poster here but long time reader. I would like to add this to the discussion, that an article in the Lancet noticed that the increased susceptibility and mortality in some might be related to ACE inhibitor and ARBs medications they are taking to treat hypertension and prevent diabetes complications.

"These data suggest that ACE2 expression is increased in diabetes and treatment with ACE inhibitors and ARBs increases ACE2 expression. Consequently, the increased expression of ACE2 would facilitate infection with COVID-19. We therefore hypothesise that diabetes and hypertension treatment with ACE2-stimulating drugs increases the risk of developing severe and fatal COVID-19."

https://www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journ...20)30116-8.pdf

That's a tough situation since those Rx meds are so important. At least the OTC remedies might be avoided.

Possibly some of the actual treatments for Sars-2 could be making things worse.

https://sfamjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/1751-7915.13557

The importance of evidence‐based treatments proven in controlled clinical trials must be stressed since in the SARS epidemic untested drug treatment seems to have done more harm than no treatment (A. Danchin, personal communication).

[gsgs]

jjackson there should be something at http://www.cdc.go.kr/index.es?sid=a2

I'd check press conferences , it's tedious to translate, find links
I also emailed to cdc.go.kr before , no reply

they also have something in English, but less

here an article :
https://kvia.com/news/us-world/2020/...sting-station/


---------------------------
I just see they have a big wash your hands,wash your hands ... banner.
I had thought they were mere about masks in Korea ... maybe they learned
something new in the last weeks

[gsgs]

Ronan Kelly, I just noticed a similar 2nd peak in German ARI , maybe more people with symptoms are going to a doctor now (?)

https://influenza.rki.de/Diagrams.aspx?agiRegion=7

Especially in North Rhine-Westphalia - probably due to the situation and reporting
on diseases with the novel coronaviruses (COVID-19) -
more visits to the doctor due to ARE occurred.
This may have led to increased diagnostics and subsequently to more influenza reports according to the IfSG.

[Missouriwatcher]

Missouri's outpatient ILI has shot up and increases in hospitalizations are on the rise while lab positive for influenza decrease.

https://health.mo.gov/living/healthcondiseases/communicable/influenza/pdf/week91920.pdf

[Ronan Kelly]

Take notice of these ILI charts from Washington & Oregon.

[Steffi]

gsgs The use of soap mystery explained by chemistry

https://www.facebook.com/palli.thord...56594324990583

https://www.newsweek.com/this-why-soap-so-effective-stopping-spread-coronavirus-1491203

In Italian
https://video.repubblica.it/dossier/.../355367/355932

[mcphilbrick]

1st known case traces back to November

https://www.livescience.com/first-case-coronavirus-found.html

A 55-year-old individual from Hubei province in China may have been the first person to have contracted COVID-19, the disease caused by the new coronavirus spreading across the globe. That case dates back to Nov. 17, 2019, according to the South Morning China Post.

[Supa]

Yes indeed! Ibuprofen which increases ACE2 activity which the virus binds to, and is probably being widely used to treat covid-19 early symptoms and in recovery. This perhaps is a comorbidity leading to sudden relapse and death some patients seem to have.

[KathyRN]

See page 236 for Adult triage details. This protocol WILL have to be implemented in the next 2 weeks, IMHO.

[KathyRN]

Medical Draft info
For those of you who are healthcare professionals. I remember this coming up during the H5N1 years. It would take an act of Congress to authorize the draft, but knowing how stretched thin our doctor and nurse numbers are, this would allow the drafting of those who are currently either not working, or working only part-time.

https://www.sss.gov/About/Medical-Draft-in-Standby-Mode

[kiwibird]

Thank you Supa and welcome. I wonder if, from your interesting artilce, "ACE2 can also be increased by thiazolidinediones and ibuprofen." - this relates to the latest advice to avoid asprin/ibuprofen use by the French Health Minister here: https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/...-the-infection

and this:

AlaskaDenise
Editor, Senior Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 9832
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#1
Aspirin Misuse May Have Made 1918 Flu Pandemic Worse
November 5th, 2009, 02:30 PM
I just happened to find this article while searching the IDSA information.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Press Release
For Immediate Release: October 2, 2009


Contact Name: John Heys
Contact E-mail: jheys@idsociety.org
Contact Phone: (703) 299-0412

Aspirin Misuse May Have Made 1918 Flu Pandemic Worse

The devastation of the 1918-1919 influenza pandemic is well known, but a new article suggests a surprising factor in the high death toll: the misuse of aspirin. Appearing in the November 1 issue of Clinical Infectious Diseases and available online now, the article sounds a cautionary note as present day concerns about the novel H1N1 virus run high.

High aspirin dosing levels used to treat patients during the 1918-1919 pandemic are now known to cause, in some cases, toxicity and a dangerous build up of fluid in the lungs, which may have contributed to the incidence and severity of symptoms, bacterial infections, and mortality. Additionally, autopsy reports from 1918 are consistent with what we know today about the dangers of aspirin toxicity, as well as the expected viral causes of death.

The motivation behind the improper use of aspirin is a cautionary tale, said author Karen Starko, MD. In 1918, physicians did not fully understand either the dosing or pharmacology of aspirin, yet they were willing to recommend it. Its use was promoted by the drug industry, endorsed by doctors wanting to “do something,” and accepted by families and institutions desperate for hope.

“Understanding these natural forces is important when considering choices in the future,” Dr. Starko said. “Interventions cut both ways. Medicines can save and improve our lives. Yet we must be ever mindful of the importance of dose, of balancing benefits and risks, and of the limitations of our studies.”

http://www.idsociety.org/Content.aspx?id=15396

from here: https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/...pandemic-worse

[sharon sanders]

The CDC cancelled a teleconference at the last minute today. It was the teleconference that was postponed from yesterday (March 13).

A former CDC director just tweeted this:

Dr. Tom Frieden

@DrTomFrieden
Shocking, unacceptable @CDCgov not allowed to speak. Can be w@POTUS & @VP
Reporters/public best served by best scientific experts. Today's CDC media brief cancelled last minute. SINGLE most important action now get & share more info on #COVID19. So much we need to know & don't.
1:28 PM ? Mar 14, 2020


-------------------------------------------------

Now it is a really big deal if the current admin is preventing the CDC from speaking. A really big deal.

Equally a big deal is if Tom Frieden does not know what he is talking about.

What if the CDC cancelled the teleconference for another reason...like a bunch of new cases somewhere? Some new screw up in test kit deliveries that they don't want to talk about until they fix it. (again).

There will be a tribunal after this is all over and those people who are using their connections to communicate better be sure of what they are saying. Literally, people's lives depend on it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Frieden

[JJackson]

I have been participating at blog for about as long as I have been here. The blog deals with international relations, and conflicts like Syria and so they have limited knowledge about diseases and I have been trying to take advantage of this 'teachable moment' to answer their question. I have been asked about the drive through tests used in Korea and their PCR testing procedures i.e. what protocols they are using are they using the reagents and probes from China or did they develop their own? PCR is not going to give an instant result and can not be installed at every drive through. If you have links to this information I would appreciate it if you could post them so I can forward them or just post in this tread. https://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_...40a4f1e6f2200d