Discussion: Chinese Academy of Sciences (CAS) in Wuhan has been working with bats and coronavirus for many years - DNA manipulations, cloning....

[Pathfinder]

Fifty-four scientists have lost their jobs as a result of NIH probe into foreign ties

By Jeffrey MervisJun. 12, 2020 , 6:00 PM

Some 54 scientists have resigned or been fired as a result of an ongoing investigation by the National Institutes of Health into the failure of NIH grantees to disclose financial ties to foreign governments. In 93% of those cases, the hidden funding came from a Chinese institution.
...

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/06/fifty-four-scientists-have-lost-their-jobs-result-nih-probe-foreign-ties

[Emily]

https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202006.0044/v1

lin, X.; Chen, S. Major Concerns on the Identification of Bat Coronavirus Strain RaTG13 and Quality of Related Nature Paper. Preprints 2020, 2020060044 (doi: 10.20944/preprints202006.0044.v1).
Abstract

A recent manuscript (Zhou, P. et al. “A pneumonia outbreak associated with a new coronavirus of probable bat origin”, Nature 579, 270–273 (2020). https://doi.org/10.1038/s41586-020-2012-7) from Wuhan Institute of Virology claimed the identification of a bat coronavirus, RaTG13, which showed 96.2% genome homology with SARS-CoV-2. In this paper, we raise the puzzling observations surrounding the identification, characterization, unique genome features of this RaTG13 strain, as well as its 100% nucleotide identity in partial RdRp gene with another bat coronavirus strain BtCoV/4991. And the paper presented premature hypothesis of potential bat origin of SARS-CoV-2 while RaTG13 strain was not successfully isolated. We also present the concerns on the methodology, data quality and experiment procedures described in this paper. We call for the authors to provide additional data, to share related samples to be verified and further characterized by other scientists.
Subject Areas

Epidemiology; COVID-19; coronavirus; bat; RaTG13; BtCoV/4991; SARS-CoV-2; Pangolin Coronavirus; next generation sequencing

Copyright: This is an open access article distributed under the Creative Commons Attribution License which permits unrestricted use, distribution, and reproduction in any medium, provided the original work is properly cited.

Download PDF

One of the authors of this article is very impressive:

https://ppalm.org/page-18107

Here is the Conclusion for those that don't have a PDF reader. (We can post the whole paper under the license if needed.)

Conclusion:
In summary, as a study that isolated first SARS-CoV-2 strain and identified a bat coronavirus
with high homology to SARS-CoV-2, it is critical that all data relating to viral genomes are of top
quality, since many studies used or might use them as reference sequences. Meanwhile,
although the leadership in Wuhan Institute of Virology might highlight their impressive speed to
complete all related experiments described in the paper16, the accurate patient sample
collection date and sequencing data with better quality needs to be recorded in the scientific
paper.
In addition, there have been no studies on RaTG13’s infectivity in bat/human cells or in animal
models, its interactions with antibodies or antiviral drugs. There is lack of understandings on
RaTG13’s virulence, transmissibility, pathogenicity, immune epitopes, immune evasion
mechanism, etc. This was because WIV did not isolate the RaTG13 virus and does not have any
related viral stocks, if the statement from Dr. Yanyi Wang (the director of WIV) in a recent TV
interview17 was accurate.
Therefore, a careful examination of the related RaTG13 samples and raw data sets of its
genome sequencing are warranted to exclude any possibilities of errors or the potential coinfection
of two different strains of coronavirus. And the authors need to clearly explain the
relationship between RaTG13 and BtCoV/4991, whether they were the same strain or two
closely related strains.
This paper was rushed to make a premature connection between bat coronavirus and SARSCoV-
2, drawing a potential bat origin scenario to support SARS-CoV-2 zoonotic transmission
from bat to human. However, this connection was based on a potential bat coronavirus strain
RaTG13, that may not truly exist, considering its key information missing: such as no related bat
sample description, no sequencing procedure details published, confusion/identity issue with
BtCoV/4991 strain, unusual sequence features, no viral isolation and related characterization,
et al.
In light of these concerns, we call for the retraction of this Nature paper1 to further verify the
sequencing data, patient sample collection date and provide more information regarding the
origin, identification and characterization of this BatCoV RaTG13. Proper verification should
involve Dr. Zhengli Shi sending the RaTG13 and BtCoV/4991-related bat samples to other noncollaborating
laboratories to be analyzed independently. And this Nature paper1 should be
cautious on making the “probable bat origin” hypothesis before RaTG13 existence could be
confirmed.

[Emily]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/03/exclusive-coronavirus-began-accident-disease-escaped-chinese/

Exclusive: Coronavirus began 'as an accident' in Chinese lab, says former MI6 boss
Sir Richard Dearlove tells Telegraph's Planet Normal podcast that new scientific report suggests key elements of the virus were 'inserted'
By Bill Gardner 3 June 2020 • 9:17pm

A former head of MI6 has said he believes the coronavirus pandemic "started as an accident" when the virus escaped from a laboratory in China.

In an interview with The Telegraph, Sir Richard Dearlove said he had seen an "important" new scientific report suggesting the virus did not emerge naturally but was man-made by Chinese scientists.

The apparent discovery will raise the prospect of China paying "reparations" for the death and economic catastrophe wreaked upon the world, the former intelligence chief said. It comes as Beijing faces growing pressure to explain precisely how coronavirus first began to spread late last year...

[bertrand789]

Coronavirus : le pangolin retir? de la liste des ingr?dients de la m?decine traditionnelle chinoise


https://www.ladepeche.fr/2020/06/12/...se,8929269.php

[alert]

A great podcast of Bret Weinstein with Yuri Deigin as guest on a possible lab origin of SARS-CoV-2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5SRrsr-Iug

Yuri is author of this very informative article on SARS-CoV-2 and lab manipulation of coronaviruses:

Lab-Made? SARS-CoV-2 Genealogy Through the Lens of Gain-of-Function Research

https://medium.com/@yurideigin/lab-made-cov2-genealogy-through-the-lens-of-gain-of-function-research-f96dd7413748

@alert: the SARS from the miners, was not so good adapted from humans, otherwise we would have had at that time a pandemic. RaTG13 did not have a perfectly adapted receptor binding domain for human cells and a furin cleavage site that make possible to infect different cell types and species. SARS leaked several times from different labs.

Just an example:

Chinese authorities on alert as SARS breaks out again


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC403836/

Yes, I am aware there were multiple accidental leaks of the SARS1 virus in the summer/fall of 2003, both in China, and elsewhere (Singapore, Taiwan). That's not what I'm referring to,

In addition to the 2012 miners, there were four sporadic cases of infection with a bat coronavirus in Guangdong between December 2003 and January 2004. They were not infected with the SARS1 virus from a lab, nor with RaTG13, nor with COVID-19, and none of them infected anyone else. It's not clear to me now whether all four of them had the same virus or different ones. None of them had a lab exposure, and at least a couple of them had an animal exposure.

[Kathy]

A great podcast of Bret Weinstein with Yuri Deigin as guest on a possible lab origin of SARS-CoV-2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5SRrsr-Iug

Yuri is author of this very informative article on SARS-CoV-2 and lab manipulation of coronaviruses:

Lab-Made? SARS-CoV-2 Genealogy Through the Lens of Gain-of-Function Research

https://medium.com/@yurideigin/lab-made-cov2-genealogy-through-the-lens-of-gain-of-function-research-f96dd7413748

@alert: the SARS from the miners, was not so good adapted from humans, otherwise we would have had at that time a pandemic. RaTG13 did not have a perfectly adapted receptor binding domain for human cells and a furin cleavage site that make possible to infect different cell types and species. SARS leaked several times from different labs.

Just an example:

Chinese authorities on alert as SARS breaks out again

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC403836/

[alert]

Yikes. I had no previous knowledge of the 2012 mine incident.

That means that the virus that causes COVID-19 isn't really SARS2, it's SARS4 (or maybe SARS7?). We apparently had not only one warning about these coronaviruses, but at least three. Remember that in the fall of the 2003, following the SARS1 outbreak, there were four unconnected human coronavirus infections in Guangdong that were not due to circulating coronaviruses. At the time, they were diagnosed as SARS, but multiple sources indicate that the virus was not the known SARS virus from the earlier outbreak. If all four were due to the same virus (circulating in bats or rodents), then COVID-19 is SARS4. If they're all distinct, then this is at least the 7th jump to humans of these viruses.

[sharon sanders]

Discussion of paper gsgs found here:

https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/the-pandemic-discussion-forum/858010-discussion-thread-v-covid-19-new-coronavirus?p=868388#post868388

There are links to translations of the original paper about the miners here:

https://twitter.com/TheSeeker268/status/1262459039297961989

This all raises many questions.

again...because I have learned to take screen shots...

[Emily]

JJackson, calling Americans stupid because they don't want to fund this kind of research doesn't make them stupid. It just turns them off.

[Emily]

Discussion of paper gsgs found here:

https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/the-pandemic-discussion-forum/858010-discussion-thread-v-covid-19-new-coronavirus?p=868388#post868388

There are links to translations of the original paper about the miners here:

https://twitter.com/TheSeeker268/status/1262459039297961989

Antoni Serra-Torres MD

@DrAntoniSerraT1

Replying to@KevinMcH3
@luigi_warren
and 48 others

Half truth. And two different opinion by two consultants. One says probably viral and secondary aspergillosis. The other one says fungal and secondary aspergillosis. But the clinical course mimics SARSCoV2. It’s it. Just needed a bit of ‘tuning’ for a better receptors binding.

This all raises many questions.

[Emily]

JJackson, who is claiming that a vaccine for SARS1 could have been used to protect against the SARS2 virus? Or is Daszak claiming if they had more money to sample more bats and do more gain-of-function that they would have predicted this virus and would have started working on that vaccine a couple of years ago so it would be proven safe and effective now? That would be nonsense to claim that scientifically. Do they ever weigh the risks of more human to bat contact and more risk of lab accidents in the equation? AND they ignore the progress vaccine science has made over the years all without their help. Those new technologies are being applied right now to respond to THIS virus, not SARS1.

[Gert van der Hoek]

Abstract of study mentioned in the previous post.


A Candidate Vaccine for Covid-19 (SARS-CoV-2) Developed from Analysis of its General Method of Action for Infectivity

ABSTRACT

This study presents the background, rationale and Method of Action of Biovacc-19, a candidate vaccine for Covid-19, now in advanced pre-clinical development, which has already passed the first acute toxicity testing. Unlike conventionally developed vaccines, Biovacc-19's Method of Operation is upon non human-like (NHL) epitopes in 21.6% of the composition of SARS-CoV-2's Spike protein, which displays distinct distributed charge including the presence of a charged furin-like cleavage site. The logic of the design of the vaccine is explained, which starts with empirical analysis of the aetiology of SARS-CoV-2.

Mistaken assumptions about SARS-CoV-2's aetiology risk creating ineffective or actively harmful vaccines, including the risk of Antibody-Dependent Enhancement (ADE). Such problems in vaccine design are illustrated from past experience in the HIV domain. We propose that the dual effect general method of action of this chimeric virus’s spike, including receptor binding domain, includes membrane components other than the ACE2 receptor, which explains clinical evidence of its infectivity and pathogenicity.

We show the non-receptor dependent phagocytic general method of action to be specifically related to cumulative charge from inserted sections placed on the SARS-CoV-2 Spike surface in positions to bind efficiently by salt bridge formations; and from blasting the Spike we display the non human-like epitopes from which Biovacc-19 has been down-selected.

[Gert van der Hoek]

Norway Scientist Claims Report Proves Coronavirus Was Lab-Made

Jun 7, 2020

Norwegian scientist Birger S?rensen has claimed the novel coronavirus SARS-CoV-2 is not natural in origin. The claims by the co-author of the British-Norwegian study—published in the Quarterly Review of Biophysics—are supported by the former head of Britain’s MI6, Sir Richard Dearlove.

The study from S?rensen and British professor Angus Dalgleish show that the coronavirus's spike protein contains sequences that appear to be artificially inserted.

They also highlight the lack of mutation since its discovery, which suggests it was already fully adapted to humans. The study goes on to explain the rationale for the development of Biovacc-19, a candidate vaccine for COVID-19 that is now in advanced pre-clinical development.

Properties that have never been found in nature

S?rensen told NRK that the virus has properties that differ greatly from SARS, and which have never been detected in nature. He explained that China and the United States have collaborated for many years on coronavirus research.

S?rensen claimed that both countries participate in "gain of function" studies, in which the pathogenicity or transmissibility of potential pandemic pathogens can be enhanced in order to understand them better.

For months, rumors have persisted that the virus was created in the advanced virology lab in Wuhan. Lab bosses told Chinese state television that the claims were “total fabrication” and that the lab had never done any research into viruses similar to SARS-CoV-2.

According to S?rensen, it was Chinese scientists that first released the sequences that the British-Norwegian study later claimed to have been unnatural in origin. He claims that China has since put a lid on other such studies.

[JJackson]

This is true the reason there is no vaccine but because there is no funding. All the work on SARS-1 stopped when it disappeared in humans despite the fact there was a know reservoir of SARS like viruses in bats that was very likely to cause a re-emergence of SARS or something like it. Ecohealth knew it was still a danger and kept working to evaluate it. They will keep up this important work, just without NIH funding. Had the funding not dried up we would have been much better prepared to deal with this outbreak.

[bertrand789]

Kathy
I completely agree. Even if the consensus bodies at the global level all seem weakened, as they seem to be the only solution, this will be temporary.

Now, for what needs to be done, at the state level, America shows us a path of its own:

https://www.bfmtv.com/international/...e-1928927.html

it seems indeed in the United States, it is necessary, by their culture and their right, to destroy to rebuild.

As they do not have only faults, it must be noted. Except that, they should not impose it on others, because frankly in terms of management, there are other possibilities ...

***********************************

je suis tout ? fait d'accord. M?me si les instances de consensus au niveau mondial semblent toutes affaiblies, comme elles semblent la seule solution, cela va ?tre provisoire.

Maintenant, pour ce qui doit ?tre fait, au niveau des ?tats, l'Am?rique nous montre une voie qui lui est propre:

https://www.bfmtv.com/international/...e-1928927.html

il semble en effet aux Etats Unis, il faut, de par leur culture et leur droit, d?truire pour reconstruire.

Comme ils n'ont pas que des d?fauts, il faut en prendre acte. Sauf que cela, ils ne doivent pas l'imposer aux autres, car franchement en terme de management, il y a d'autres possibles...