Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Discussion: Chinese Academy of Sciences (CAS) in Wuhan has been working with bats and coronavirus for many years - DNA manipulations, cloning....

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • JJackson
    replied
    Prof. Racaniello felt that Dr. LiMeng Yan's Zenodo post needed examination so the TWiV team (3 Virology Professor and a Professor of Immunology) review it here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBQplOe8-LE

    Leave a comment:


  • sharon sanders
    replied
    On now...not sure if you tube will allow this video to stay online.



    Leave a comment:


  • JJackson
    commented on 's reply
    Is it a preprint if someone uploads to Zenodo? I can post there as can you just give them an email address and upload it is probably harder to comment here. I can not see anything on this upload site being accepted by any journal with a peer review process. At least with the bio and medarix some of the papers will eventually be reviewed and published.

  • sharon sanders
    replied
    To provide both views here is a recent NatGeo article. My personal experience with this media is that they do not correct inaccuracies in their reporting. Anyway...it is important to always read both views in a controversy.


    Why misinformation about COVID-19’s origins keeps going viral

    Another piece of coronavirus misinformation is making the rounds. Here’s how to sift through the muck.

    September 18, 2020

    snip

    Finding answers to the precise events that led to a spillover pandemic is a “needle in a haystack proposition,” says Ian Lipkin, an epidemiologist from Columbia University, who co-authored an early research paper in Nature Medicine about the natural origins of SARS-CoV-2. The Yan report claims this Nature Medicine report had a “conflict of interest” due to Lipkin’s work in containing the 2002-2003 SARS epidemic, for which he received an award from the Chinese government. Lipkin says this accusation is “absurd,” and when asked for his view on the role of bioengineering in the origins of SARS-CoV-2, he adds: “There is no data to support this.”

    https://www.nationalgeographic.com/s...act-check-cvd/

    Leave a comment:


  • Emily
    replied

    Key take away for me: We have a problem distinguishing nature from humans mimicking nature solely on microbial forensic evidence. Orthogonal evidence, like lab notebooks, is a crucial aspect in tipping the balance one way or the other.

    Leave a comment:


  • Emily
    commented on 's reply
    "it looks plausible and authoritative"
    Hey, I like that! I'll try to put a disclaimer on posts that explore biosafety/ethics rather than offer direct evidence in this particular case since I'll never have access to the only kind of evidence that will work. (And could be thrown out of court by a biased judge, anyway.)
    We're good, JJackson.

  • JJackson
    commented on 's reply
    Emily it is definitely not my intention to be rude or nasty to anyone here and certainly not you who I have worked with for years and always viewed as friend, the same applies to Sharon. My problem with this thread, and the items in your post, is that they are purporting to be evidence of lab generation of a virus and to someone who does not understand - and I do not include you or Sharon in that because I know better from the the threads we have all contributed to in the past - it looks plausible and authoritative. That is why I have been taking the time to try and explain why they are built on incorrect data or unjustified inferences based on that data, at least as I understand it. My understanding may be wrong and I am happy to change my opinion if there was anything in this thread that made me think I had misunderstood something but nothing presented so far is substantial.

  • Pathfinder
    replied
    September 14, 2020

    Preprint Open Access

    Proposed SARS-CoV-2 Spillover During 2019 Review of Samples from a Mineshaft in Mojiang, Yunnan Province, China


    This research examines the activity at the Wuhan Institute of Virology in late 2019, when samples from a mineshaft associated with a suspected SARS outbreak were being reviewed. It proposes that spillover occurred during this review of samples including of a virus (BtCoV/4991) only 1% different to SARS-CoV-2 in its RdRp.

    This research examines the activity at the Wuhan Institute of Virology in late 2019, when samples from a mineshaft associated with a suspected SARS outbreak were being reviewed. It proposes that spillover occurred during this review of samples including of a virus (BtCoV/4991) only 1% different to SARS-CoV-2 in its RdRp.

    Leave a comment:


  • bertrand789
    commented on 's reply
    Andean immigrants in New York City raise and sell guinea pigs for meat, and some South American restaurants in major cities in the United States serve cuy as a delicacy.[147][33] In the 1990s and 2000s, La Molina University began exporting large breed guinea pigs to Europe, Japan, and the United States in the hope of increasing human consumption outside of countries in northern South America

    Andean immigrants in New York City raise and sell guinea pigs for meat, and some South American restaurants in major cities in the United States serve cuy as a delicacy.[147][33] In the 1990s and 2000s, La Molina University began exporting large breed guinea pigs to Europe, Japan, and the United States in the hope of increasing human consumption outside of countries in northern South America


    aucun variant imputable au passage en tous ces lieux ?

    j'aimerai les r?ponses de g?n?ticiens sv p ...

  • bertrand789
    replied
    Merci,
    je suis d'accord pour cet aspect exp?rimentation animale, mais dans le dossier qui nous occupe, c'est une infime partie du sujet, car le travail sur les lign?es cellulaires en amont des exp?rimentations , c'est sans danger .

    En tout cas, vu les animaux de compagnie sensible, non vraiment suivi et sans vrai conseil donn? , ce me semble une gigantesque exp?rimentation ? ciel ouvert .

    Les prori?taires d'animaux de compagnie ou de consommation ( cas des cochon d'Inde: Cavia porcellus) ont ?t? pr?venus des dangers ?

    Quand on se souvient des propos des uns et des autres vis ? vis des habitudes alimentaires des chinois , c'est risible . Mais les chinois ne me semblent pas avoir publi? ce qui se doit , notamment, sur les rats des bambous, etc ...


    La science , ce n'est pas la formalisation du su ?

    Leave a comment:


  • Emily
    commented on 's reply
    I think this could help limit at least the dangerous experiments that involve animal suffering:

    Also, a vision for developing the role of the Biological Weapons Convention as part of a larger interconnected global security architecture seems very much needed.

  • Emily
    commented on 's reply
    "Emily - Is this evidence of something?"

    JJackson - Is this a court of law? Am I being paid to be lawyer, or even to furnish you with 'useful' data? My bank account has zero evidence of that. I think there is evidence here of you being rude and nasty though.
    Whatever cooks your books and thanks for letting me know about the link.

  • bertrand789
    commented on 's reply
    si beaucoup disent que le concept One Health, d?ploy? pas , comme cette O.N.G , est une partie de la solution, il me semble temps, de regarder dans tous les d?tails comment celui-ci a et est utilis? ici et l? .

    En Chine, sans que l'on dispose de vrais d?tails , il semble que les ?levages de rat bambous ne soient plus recommand?s , ni autoris?s. Mais ou sont les faits scientifiques produits et le motif invoqu? , pour le cas de cette esp?ce.

    En Hollande et au Dannemark , comme il a ?t? prouv? le passage homme animal, puis en se d?ployant chez un animal sensible d'?levage , l'?mergence de nouveaux variants , avec retour chez l'homme, les ?levages atteins sont supprim?s . Le motif, n'est en rien , comme certains le pr?tendent la protection animale, mais de mon point de vue , la protection des populations humaines, vu le fait que l'on ne peut qualifier le risque de ces nouveaux variants .

    Sauf que cette position ne semble pas partager , notamment par les am?ricains, par exemple qui pour ce type d'?levage , font quoi dans les faits ?


    Maintenant , en regardant la situation dans le monde, on peut noter , que l'attitude vis ? vis des animaux de compagnie qui peuvent produire le m?me danger est disons, non formalis?e et ou pire .

    Il y a certes , les visons, les furets , mais il y a aussi les cochons d'Inde , qui sont ? la fois un animal de compagnie en x lieu et un aliment dans certains pays .

    Ne serait-il pas temps , de faire un fil sp?cifique sur ce sujet , et de lister les attitudes des uns et des autres sur des bases formalis?es.

    Donc quid de la position des chinois , des am?ricains pour commencer?

    juste pour sourire, ils ont dit et disent quoi les membres de cette O.N.G , qui a ?t? cit? comme les experts de ce sujet ?



    Quand aux g?n?ticiens, dans les cas av?r?s dannois et hollandais, des variants sont apparus, mais peut-on ? posteriori qualifier un nouveau variant par le biais d'un passage homme animal?

    si oui, combien des variants qualifi?s au monde sont issu de passage homme animaux ?

    dire que l'on ne peut ou sait faire serait un plus ...



    Au moment ou certains ?crivent ceci:
    You know who isn’t worried about a second wave of COVID-19? Sweden. The stolid Scandinavian kingdom has just carried out a record number of COVID-19 tests and found a positive rate of just 1.2%, the lowest since the start of the pandemic. As Sweden’s case rate drops below Norway’s and Denmark’s, those commentators who spent

    donc que ?conomiquement et m?dicalement , la gestion de crise propos?e, par une entreprise identifi?e a ?t? une belle connerie,

    Si l'on va tendre de fa?on volontaire et ou forc?e vers une forme d'immunit? collective, regarder avec soin l'ensemble des aspects de la diffusion de ce type de virus dans nos soci?t?s me semble une vraie n?cessit? d'une part et d'autre part que les membres de ce forum , vu ses qualit?s fassent leur part aussi ...

    Faire des remarques et parfois des critiques, pour de grandes instances, comme, par exemple, l'office internationale des ?pizooties, ce n'est pas ?tre un complotiste, mais plus, de mon point de vue, une marque de respect , pour le travail fait , mais aussi le travail ? faire ...

  • JJackson
    commented on 's reply
    Pathfinder - Ebright can think what he likes but but 'the tens of millions' would be a drop in the bucket if added to the vaccine and pharmaceutical budget. Also where does he think the genetic sequences and samples of beta CoVs that the vaccine labs and pharmaceutical companies are using to develop their products came from? If we had more data on what pathogens are lurking in the wildlife around us we would have a better idea about where to invest our billions on pharmaceuticals, for very little cost, or we could stick with burying our heads in the sand and spending a fortune without knowing what is likely to cause the next pandemic. Had we heeded the warnings, after SARS-1, that there were plenty of similar viruses circulating in the bat population and SARS 2/3/4 should be expected we should have looked at the range of potential zoonotic viruses in this population and could have had a broadly acting anti-viral targeting a conserved region of the CoV gene pool that had the highest likelihood of jumping species to us.

  • JJackson
    commented on 's reply
    I can not say it was not a lab escape or that HIV was not a bio weapon designed to attack gay people because I can not prove a negative. All I can say is that these two statements are basically equally well supported by the available evidence i.e. there isn't anything worthy of calling evidence that I have seen.
    There are many things that need debating testing, vaccines and their distribution, etc.
    I am not sure what this thread is even claiming apart from that China has been a bad actor in this outbreak. I would rate it as good, at least in comparison to most countries which does not set the bar very high.
Working...
X