Self Defense Basics

[Goju]

Re: Self Defense Basics

I object to this policy since defense is a very important part of prep.

I removed my post when asked to by the mods.

Perhaps it can be reconsidered since i am sure many people would like to know more about how to protect themselves during and after a pandemic.

No talk of "gunning people down"... just how do we expect to protect our homes, families and preps.

Not to i consider negligent

[Niko]

Re: Self Defense Basics

Goju, thank you for explaining your deletion.

FWIW, I agree with your comments in last post. Whether or not to purchase a gun is just one of many components to be considered. Individuals should carefully consider all aspects of prepping for a pandemic or any potential diaster for that matter. Where is the harm in a thoughtful discussion on purchasing weapons as part of a pandemic plan?

[Sally Furniss]

Re: Self Defense Basics

I have asked Goju to delete his post while waiting for clarification on FT policy.

[rjprrt]

Re: Self Defense Basics

where do i start. if the bird flu mutates and does not weakon, it will be something to behold.

the govt says there will be 40% laying out of work. i expect the number will be a lot higher. if you see your co-workers falling down, will you stay? when it hits i will not go to work or leave. my family is my main concern. theses decisions were made after long hours of though.

if it hits you will probably not have any water, gas or electricity. we will suffer
no doubt. we will make it.

[Christian Rivers]

Re: Self Defense Basics

Self defense, fear and survival are all themes that merge in crisis.
A critical self defense tool we must have and share is the knowledge to overcome fear. Yes there is a potential for catastrophe but there are more opportunities for us to mitigate against the catastrophe, especially to maintain social order.
As we consider the issue of self defense in the context of our fears of a pandemic, we do well to look at our own biology. Readers of flutrackers.com are very familiar with the hypothesis that the mortality from H5N1 influenza is in large part from the cytokine storm the body unleashes in the invading pathogen. The early days of the announced pandemic will strike fear into the unprepared population with much unjustified talk of catastrophic social behaviors. The fear will spread far more quickly that the virus.
We can use the knowledge and skills we learn on flutrackers.com to quell the fear and focus our fight not on each other but on the virus.
CR

[St Michael]

Re: Self Defense Basics

I object to this policy since defense is a very important part of prep.

I removed my post when asked to by the mods.

Perhaps it can be reconsidered since i am sure many people would like to know more about how to protect themselves during and after a pandemic.

No talk of "gunning people down"... just how do we expect to protect our homes, families and preps.

Not to i consider negligent

Self defense is a moral obligation according to uninterupted orthodox Judeo-Christian teaching, and to demand pacifism in the face of this tradition is to insult both my Faith and my intelligence:

CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

Legitimate defense

2263 The legitimate defense of persons and societies is not an exception to the prohibition against the murder of the innocent that constitutes intentional killing. "The act of self-defense can have a double effect: the preservation of one's own life; and the killing of the aggressor. . . . The one is intended, the other is not."65

2264 Love toward oneself remains a fundamental principle of morality. Therefore it is legitimate to insist on respect for one's own right to life. Someone who defends his life is not guilty of murder even if he is forced to deal his aggressor a lethal blow:

If a man in self-defense uses more than necessary violence, it will be unlawful: whereas if he repels force with moderation, his defense will be lawful. . . . Nor is it necessary for salvation that a man omit the act of moderate self-defense to avoid killing the other man, since one is bound to take more care of one's own life than of another's.66

2265 Legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for one who is responsible for the lives of others. The defense of the common good requires that an unjust aggressor be rendered unable to cause harm. For this reason, those who legitimately hold authority also have the right to use arms to repel aggressors against the civil community entrusted to their responsibility.

[Goju]

Re: Self Defense Basics

My new philosophy after the conference...

i am a wolf chasing the unprepared to get them prepared. I have a laser like mission to get every home in America prepped. I will start with my town (town meeting set for Sept 22) If sucessful it may be a model for all towns across this great land of ours.

We are as prepped as the house next to us... and the one next to them... and so on...

I am armed. If someone comes with violent intent, I do plan on defending those i love. I am no sheep...

The idea is to get all prepped to the point that they wont need to come to me for help... even if it buys me 2 weeks of not looking over my shoulder - i'll take it.

I am pushing for 2 weeks minimum. Got to start somewhere and it is less alarming and more doable. Also the big corps are advising 2 weeks for their employees... lets join them and get the word out. You need to involve your community leaders... only then can you approach your individual neighbors.

If my plan works, it will be easier for you to broach the subject with everyone... more to come...

[granny]

Re: Self Defense Basics

This is one more thought on having a gun. Flu season in during winter, we will be inside and our phones will probably be out. A gun shot carries for a long distance and can be used as a means of communication. Where I live homes are far apart, my nearest neighbor is about a mile away and this is used here. Three evenly spaced shots means I need help.

Could people in the city also use this? Two shots could also mean "Prowler", if your neighbor responded in kind and so on; would you also not be communicating to the prowler that he should move on?

[Mellie]

Re: Self Defense Basics

It sounds logical but most cities -- and even out little town of 8,00 -- have an anti-gun shooting policy within the city limits.

That said, I feel there might be time and place for a pair of warning shots.

I also think my air horn approach could be a deterrant.

[colormyquilt]

Re: Self Defense Basics

From Goju's last post: "The idea is to get all prepped to the point that they wont need to come to me for help... "

You may just have something there, Goju. What's that old saying: give a man a fish and he will eat dinner tonight. Teach him to fish...he will eat for his lifetime." And that would buy you a little more than two weeks. good luck on your meeting.

[Marcie]

Re: Self Defense Basics

Please post your links and recommendations here.

This is a charged topic for some people. This thread is not the place to debate the rights or wrongs of armed self defense, its just a place to put the info so individuals can read and make up their own minds.

I found the article below fascinating. While its a not a "how to" article, it does raise some very interesting points about the world we find ourselves in- and some of the decisions we may need to make if push comes to shove. For those considering defense of their loved ones, perhaps it will give you food for thought.

I hope you enjoy it. If it makes you just a little bit uncomfortable- well, thats often the very first stage of personal growth. I know that it certainly helped me understand some of my own journey, and desires to be part of something that can help.

ON SHEEP, SHEEPDOGS, AND WOLVES

By LTC (RET) Dave Grossman,
RANGER, Ph.D.,author of "On Killing."

Honor never grows old, and honor rejoices the heart of age. It does so because honor is, finally, about defending those noble and worthy things that deserve defending, even if it comes at a high cost. In our time, that may mean social disapproval, public scorn, hardship, persecution, or as always,even death itself. The question remains: What is worth defending? What is worth dying for? What is worth living for? - William J. Bennett - in a lecture to the United States Naval Academy November 24, 1997

One Vietnam veteran, an old retired colonel, once said this to me: "Most of the people in our society are sheep. They are kind, gentle, productive creatures who can only hurt one another by accident." This is true. Remember, the murder rate is six per 100,000 per year, and the aggravated assault rate is four per 1,000 per year. What this means is that the vast majority of Americans are not inclined to hurt one another.

Some estimates say that two million Americans are victims of violent crimes every year, a tragic, staggering number, perhaps an all-time record rate of violent crime. But there are almost 300 million Americans, which means that the odds of being a victim of violent crime is considerably less than one in a hundred on any given year. Furthermore, since many violent crimes are committed by repeat offenders, the actual number of violent citizens is considerably less than two million.

Thus there is a paradox, and we must grasp both ends of the situation: We may well be in the most violent times in history, but violence is still remarkably rare. This is because most citizens are kind, decent people who are not capable of hurting each other, except by accident or under extreme provocation. They are sheep.

I mean nothing negative by calling them sheep. To me it is like the pretty, blue robin's egg. Inside it is soft and gooey but someday it will grow into something wonderful. But the egg cannot survive without its hard blue shell. Police officers, soldiers, and other warriors are like that shell, and someday the civilization they protect will grow into something wonderful.? For now, though, they need warriors to protect them from the predators.

"Then there are the wolves," the old war veteran said, "and the wolves feed on the sheep without mercy." Do you believe there are wolves out there who will feed on the flock without mercy? You better believe it. There are evil men in this world and they are capable of evil deeds. The moment you forget that or pretend it is not so, you become a sheep. There is no safety in denial.

"Then there are sheepdogs," he went on, "and I'm a sheepdog. I live to protect the flock and confront the wolf."

If you have no capacity for violence then you are a healthy productive citizen, a sheep. If you have a capacity for violence and no empathy for your fellow citizens, then you have defined an aggressive sociopath, a wolf. But what if you have a capacity for violence, and a deep love for your fellow citizens? What do you have then? A sheepdog, a warrior, someone who is walking the hero's path. Someone who can walk into the heart of darkness, into the universal human phobia, and walk out unscathed

Let me expand on this old soldier's excellent model of the sheep, wolves, and sheepdogs. We know that the sheep live in denial, that is what makes them sheep. They do not want to believe that there is evil in the world. They can accept the fact that fires can happen, which is why they want fire extinguishers, fire sprinklers, fire alarms and fire exits throughout their kids' schools.

But many of them are outraged at the idea of putting an armed police officer in their kid's school. Our children are thousands of times more likely to be killed or seriously injured by school violence than fire, but the sheep's only response to the possibility of violence is denial. The idea of someone coming to kill or harm their child is just too hard, and so they chose the path of denial.

The sheep generally do not like the sheepdog. He looks a lot like the wolf. He has fangs and the capacity for violence. The difference, though, is that the sheepdog must not, can not and will not ever harm the sheep. Any sheep dog who intentionally harms the lowliest little lamb will be punished and removed. The world cannot work any other way, at least not in a representative democracy or a republic such as ours.

Still, the sheepdog disturbs the sheep. He is a constant reminder that there are wolves in the land. They would prefer that he didn't tell them where to go, or give them traffic tickets, or stand at the ready in our airports in camouflage fatigues holding an M-16. The sheep would much rather have the sheepdog cash in his fangs, spray paint himself white, and go, "Baa."
Until the wolf shows up. Then the entire flock tries desperately to hide behind one lonely sheepdog.

The students, the victims, at Columbine High School were big, tough high school students, and under ordinary circumstances they would not have had the time of day for a police officer. They were not bad kids; they just had nothing to say to a cop. When the school was under attack, however, and SWAT teams were clearing the rooms and hallways, the officers had to physically peel those clinging, sobbing kids off of them. This is how the little lambs feel about their sheepdog when the wolf is at the door.

Look at what happened after September 11, 2001 when the wolf pounded hard on the door. Remember how America, more than ever before, felt differently about their law enforcement officers and military personnel? Remember how many times you heard the word hero?

Understand that there is nothing morally superior about being a sheepdog; it is just what you choose to be. Also understand that a sheepdog is a funny critter: He is always sniffing around out on the perimeter, checking the breeze, barking at things that go bump in the night, and yearning for a righteous battle. That is, the young sheepdogs yearn for a righteous battle. The old sheepdogs are a little older and wiser, but they move to the sound of the guns when needed right along with the young ones.

Here is how the sheep and the sheepdog think differently. The sheep pretend the wolf will never come, but the sheepdog lives for that day. After the attacks on September 11, 2001, most of the sheep, that is, most citizens in America said, "Thank God I wasn't on one of those planes." The sheepdogs, the warriors, said, "Dear God, I wish I could have been on one of those planes. Maybe I could have made a difference." When you are truly transformed into a warrior and have truly invested yourself into warriorhood, you want to be there. You want to be able to make a difference.

There is nothing morally superior about the sheepdog, the warrior, but he does have one real advantage. Only one. And that is that he is able to survive and thrive in an environment that destroys 98 percent of the population.

There was research conducted a few years ago with individuals convicted of violent crimes. These cons were in prison for serious, predatory crimes of violence: assaults, murders and killing law enforcement officers. The vast majority said that they specifically targeted victims by body language: slumped walk, passive behavior and lack of awareness. They chose their victims like big cats do in Africa, when they select one out of the herd that is least able to protect itself.

Some people may be destined to be sheep and others might be genetically primed to be wolves or sheepdogs. But I believe that most people can choose which one they want to be, and I'm proud to say that more and more Americans are choosing to become sheepdogs.

Seven months after the attack on September 11, 2001, Todd Beamer was honored in his hometown of Cranbury, New Jersey. Todd, as you recall, was the man on Flight 93 over Pennsylvania who called on his cell phone to alert an operator from United Airlines about the hijacking. When he learned of the other three passenger planes that had been used as weapons, Todd dropped his phone and uttered the words, "Let's roll," which authorities believe was a signal to the other passengers to confront the terrorist hijackers. In one hour, a transformation occurred among the passengers - athletes, business people and parents. -- from sheep to sheepdogs and together they fought the wolves, ultimately saving an unknown number of lives on the ground.

There is no safety for honest men except by believing all possible evil of evil men. - Edmund Burke

Here is the point I like to emphasize, especially to the thousands of police officers and soldiers I speak to each year. In nature the sheep, real sheep, are born as sheep. Sheepdogs are born that way, and so are wolves. They didn't have a choice. But you are not a critter. As a human being, you can be whatever you want to be. It is a conscious, moral decision.

If you want to be a sheep, then you can be a sheep and that is okay, but you must understand the price you pay. When the wolf comes, you and your loved ones are going to die if there is not a sheepdog there to protect you. If you want to be a wolf, you can be one, but the sheepdogs are going to hunt you down and you will never have rest, safety, trust or love. But if you want to be a sheepdog and walk the warrior's path, then you must make a conscious and moral decision every day to dedicate, equip and prepare yourself to thrive in that toxic, corrosive moment when the wolf comes knocking at the door.

For example, many officers carry their weapons in church.? They are well concealed in ankle holsters, shoulder holsters or inside-the- belt holsters tucked into the small of their backs.? Anytime you go to some form of religious service, there is a very good chance that a police officer in your congregation is carrying. You will never know if there is such an individual in your place of worship, until the wolf appears to massacre you and your loved ones.

I was training a group of police officers in Texas, and during the break, one officer asked his friend if he carried his weapon in church. The other cop replied, "I will never be caught without my gun in church." I asked why he felt so strongly about this, and he told me about a cop he knew who was at a church massacre in Ft. Worth, Texas in 1999. In that incident, a mentally deranged individual came into the church and opened fire, gunning down fourteen people. He said that officer believed he could have saved every life that day if he had been carrying his gun. His own son was shot, and all he could do was throw himself on the boy's body and wait to die. That cop looked me in the eye and said, "Do you have any idea how hard it would be to live with yourself after that?"

Some individuals would be horrified if they knew this police officer was carrying a weapon in church. They might call him paranoid and would probably scorn him. Yet these same individuals would be enraged and would call for "heads to roll" if they found out that the airbags in their cars were defective, or that the fire extinguisher and fire sprinklers in their kids' school did not work. They can accept the fact that fires and traffic accidents can happen and that there must be safeguards against them.

Their only response to the wolf, though, is denial, and all too often their response to the sheepdog is scorn and disdain. But the sheepdog quietly asks himself, "Do you have and idea how hard it would be to live with yourself if your loved ones were attacked and killed, and you had to stand there helplessly because you were unprepared for that day?"

It is denial that turns people into sheep. Sheep are psychologically destroyed by combat because their only defense is denial, which is counterproductive and destructive, resulting in fear, helplessness and horror when the wolf shows up.

Denial kills you twice. It kills you once, at your moment of truth when you are not physically prepared: you didn't bring your gun, you didn't train. Your only defense was wishful thinking. Hope is not a strategy. Denial kills you a second time because even if you do physically survive, you are psychologically shattered by your fear helplessness and horror at your moment of truth.

Gavin de Becker puts it like this in "Fear Less", his superb post-
9/11 book, which should be required reading for anyone trying to come to terms with our current world situation: "...denial can be seductive, but it has an insidious side effect. For all the peace of mind deniers think they get by saying it isn't so, the fall they take when faced with new violence is all the more unsettling."

Denial is a save-now-pay-later scheme, a contract written entirely in small print, for in the long run, the denying person knows the truth on some level.

And so the warrior must strive to confront denial in all aspects of his life, and prepare himself for the day when evil comes.

If you are a warrior who is legally authorized to carry a weapon and you step outside without that weapon, then you become a sheep, pretending that the bad man will not come today. No one can be "on"
24/7, for a lifetime. Everyone needs down time. But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself... "Baa."

This business of being a sheep or a sheep dog is not a yes-no dichotomy. It is not an all-or-nothing, either-or choice. It is a matter of degrees, a continuum. On one end is an abject, head-in-the- sand-sheep and on the other end is the ultimate warrior. Few people exist completely on one end or the other.

Most of us live somewhere in between. Since 9-11 almost everyone in America took a step up that continuum, away from denial. The sheep took a few steps toward accepting and appreciating their warriors, and the warriors started taking their job more seriously. The degree to which you move up that continuum, away from sheephood and denial, is the degree to which you and your loved ones will survive, physically and psychologically at your moment of truth.

It is my opinion, after reading this entire thread, that the above highlighted sentence has the ring of truth.

[Goju]

Re: Self Defense Basics

They say the journey of one thousand miles starts with one step... well my mission to prep 200 million homes started with mine and now I am moving onto the next 18,000.

My meeting with the Town was an overwhelming success. I have been charged with forming a new committee to develop and institute education and motivational events to help our residents prepare. I am pushing 8-12 weeks of preps.

BTW - My Glock Laser sight just arrived - just in time for me to embrace my new philosphopy on non violence.

But God help the poor guy who tries to hurt me or my family or my neighbors.

If I am successful, no one will come to harm any of us and we will all make it out the other side intact. Maybe we can even make it a better world... the kind I envisioned in the 60's.

[prepdeb]

Re: Self Defense Basics

I'm impressed Goju!

You must be doing something very right. I wasn't able to even stir up interest at our neighborhood meeting recently.

Knowing that some people are succeeding is very good news.

[Marcie]

Re: Self Defense Basics

That's great news, Goju.

[Goju]

Re: Self Defense Basics

Prepdeb,

These get through

1 - it is spreading not going away - show the CDC chart
of increasing cases
2 - it is killing the young - show the CDC chart of the ages affected
3 - there is no vaccine
4 - Show the phili vs st louis chart - CDC chart again
5 - Show the CDC chart of moving the wave back in time and lowering cases so the healthcare systems are not overwhelmed.
6 - Leave them with the gunnison CO case history.

https://www.mipodcast.com/H5N1/Town_Meeting

We cannot allow our children to die.
basically show the problem
Show the solution - SIP its the only way.
Residents need to know the threat to their kids and how to prepare to SIP.
Offer to do the education through town organizations.
then use that to apraoch School board, Chamber of commerce, church

.