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Preparing and reluctant family members

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  • Amish Country
    replied
    Re: Preparing and reluctant family members

    A while back I put together one of those Rubber Maid like bins with food for about a month for one individual. This was presented to one of the older members of my family. This person lives alone on a fixed income and has enough to get by but not a lot for "extras" if you know what I mean? I love this person dearly but they did not want to hear about any potential emergencies that might happen or take any action to prepare for them. Pride was involved and feelings could have easily been hurt. So I broached this in the light of that it would really ease my mind if they would please do me the favor of just keeping this for me just in case it would be needed for me or my family sometime in the future should something unforeseeable happen. Would they please keep it for our children just in case? I have decades of Catholic guilt training from experts and I laid it on thick while trying to look as inocent as a 6 year old making an argument for an ice cream cone!

    Last week we stopped in for a visit and I peaked in the bin. All the canned meats, nut spreads, canned fruit and jars of home made jam were gone. The bin food had been used to "extend" the pantry when there was more month than there was money to cover expenses. Next visit will be an opportunity to restock.

    Emergencies come in all shapes and sizes.

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  • Amish Country
    replied
    Re: Preparing and reluctant family members

    Crayonfish don't get discouraged. My husband came around after he has saw and experienced the advantages of being prepared. One advantage we have found prepping for pandemic flu is the overlap in prepping for other emergencies. Hurricanes, snowstorms, ice storms, tornados, earthquakes and floods happen. It can be very rewarding knowing events that would have been emergencies are now minor inconveniences. I don't know how to express the peace of mind that comes from being prepared to nonpreppers. While others are stressing out or braving snow or ice covered roads for whatever is left at the grocery store, we can flip a switch on a generator, pick and choose from the pantry, cook on a nonelectric gas range and heat with a fireplace. Family members think I'm nuts too but they don't see me at the minimart during a snowstorm hoping there is a container of milk or eggs left on the shelves.

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  • Ronan Kelly
    replied
    Re: Preparing and reluctant family members

    @ crayonfish
    Non-zero impact probability

    The near-Earth asteroid 2011 AG5 currently has an impact probability of 1 in 625 for Feb. 5, 2040, said Donald Yeomans, head of the Near-Earth Object Observations Program at NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif.

    This impact probability isn't set in stone, however. So far, researchers have been able to watch the asteroid for just a short time — the first nine months of 2011 — and the numbers may change after further observation, Yeomans told SPACE.com.
    http://www.space.com/14683-big-aster...eat-earth.html

    During the early days of pandemic 2009, my wife and I stocked up enough food for about 2-3 months. We kept the kids out of school for a couple of weeks also.

    I don't think I'm obsessive about these things - I'm well informed and able to make rational decisions based on facts and probabilities. As soon as the vaccine was available we all got it - along with several hundred other people who queued up for hours in the cold - see http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=131921

    Be informed, be prepared - then no need to worry.

    Leave a comment:


  • crayonfish
    replied
    Re: Preparing and reluctant family members

    My husband thinks I'm paranoid, insists I calm down about all this and that I should stop reading the sites. To make matters more annoying, he tells me an asteroid is more likely to hit earth. Where he got that information I'd really like to know.

    My mother in law, who is a nurse, politely dismisses me at the mere mention of it.

    My parents, sisters, and brothers think I'm a conspiracy nut.

    Basically, I'm the only one who's stocking up on what little I can buy and I get the most amused looks from relatives whenever I even suggest they do the same.

    I honestly don't want to be the person to say "I told you so". I DON'T want this to happen. But I don't think my fears are unfounded. The university I went to was posting "pandemic preparedness" pamphlets and magnets all over the college when I was going there. The government encourages people to stock up in case of any kind of emergency... It's not a stupid idea.

    Does anyone else here stock up on white tea? I've read studies that say it can combat viruses and bacteria. I've got about 5 boxes of it stashed away.

    Leave a comment:


  • Amish Country
    replied
    Re: Preparing and reluctant family members

    Originally posted by AlaskaDenise View Post
    Worldwide, the #1 red meat consumed is goat meat (chevon to some). It's very lean, they eat weeds, & you also get healthy milk and good fibre (cashmere). Very practical animal.

    .
    It takes more time to raise a goat to slaughter weight. It also takes more care, more space and more feed to produce the same amount of meat. Granted goats are browsers and can forage but they do better with regular supplemental feed. IHMO goat meat is delicious and so is goat milk. We have goats for meat, milk and entertainment. This morning one was having a lot fun teasing a very frustrated goose that was trying to attack her through a welded fence.

    Leave a comment:


  • Amish Country
    replied
    Pigs must be flying somewhere!

    My; DGI, refuses to prepare for emergencies, refuses to hear anything about pandemic flu or anything else that would threaten her status quo mother called me to say she was prepping! She had just finished the book; Survivors: A Novel of the Coming Collapse by James Wesley Rawles. She said it is a fictional account about hyperinflation, a stock market crash and economic collapse happening in the US sometime in the near future. She also demanded I get a copy and read it! She's my mom a fact she also reminded of. I am not recommending the book but I have to admit I do like the result.

    Go figure? Numbers, facts, news and nagging did nothing. She gets a hold of a yarn that keeps her interest and we have a convert. Her parents and grandparents struggled through the Great Depression and they imprinted the dangers and experiences of that event on their children and grandchildren. I still remember some of the family history passed down by the generations that survived it. Now it looks like the fictionalized threat of another Great Depression was enough to encourage a major change in attitude and behavior. Prepping for my Mom means picking up a few extra cans of soup when she goes shopping but it is a start. I think I will ask our local librarian to see if she can find me a copy.

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  • AlaskaDenise
    replied
    Re: Preparing and reluctant family members

    Originally posted by Amish Country
    ......
    Poultry is a major source of cheap protein in the US and around the world. What are we going to replace it with? .....
    Worldwide, the #1 red meat consumed is goat meat (chevon to some). It's very lean, they eat weeds, & you also get healthy milk and good fibre (cashmere). Very practical animal.

    .

    Leave a comment:


  • Amish Country
    replied
    Re: Preparing and reluctant family members

    Here is a thought I am considering passing on to a few family members who think bird flu is never going to go human to human and is therefore not an issued to be concerned about.

    Poultry is a major source of cheap protein in the US and around the world. What are we going to replace it with? Even if this disease does not go human to human, if it finds a way to be carried into poultry flocks world wide times may get interesting real quick.

    Years ago fish was a cheap available alternative protein source. Now wild fish stocks are depleted and rising fuel, labor and equipment costs to find what is left are contributing to higher costs. Beef is cheep but I do not believe it can replace poultry in the long term, short term maybe.

    I think it takes a few months to get a chicken from an egg to the table as apposed to beef which takes years. Pork while it does not take as long as beef to bring to the table it is still significantly longer than chicken.

    An abrupt rise in demand for protein caused by massive poultry culls might cause beef and pork farmers to sell off stock and thin herds. Replacement of these animals will take time. This lag time could further increase demand and significantly effect the price of meat products.

    With the millions of birds being culled overseas maybe it would be good to stock up now before it gets into our flocks? I just hope that it never gets into our flocks and we can figure out a way to keep it out of ours and everyone else's!

    Beans may be getting a lot more popular.

    Leave a comment:


  • homestead
    replied
    Re: Preparing and reluctant family members

    Thank you all for the welcome and responses. Jonesie, you're a hoot! Your letter is about the funniest thing I've seen in a long time! I'd love to actually send it to the kids. Wow, you've made some wonderful scenarios there. Sometimes humor gets a point across that you can't impress on someone with a long, serious discussion. Maybe we should all print out what you wrote and keep it handy when the freeloaders start to hint that we're going to be their private Walmart. Just drop that little gem in their hat.

    Amish, you're right about our society creating people who are spoiled and totally inexperienced with facing hard times. Creampuff people. My kids, and probably even me, are part of that group. It's the effect of our post WWII economy and liberal culture. Just in my lifetime, I've seen so many changes in values and ways of relating to one another and to the life journey.

    But I have great faith in the ability of people to be resiliant and creative when faced with a dramatic challenge. We're the children of ancestors who were survivors, and we aren't that far timewise from them. Their blood still courses in our frames. Oh there will be some who will fall by the wayside; even now, in the best of times, that's true for quite a few. There may be a reckoning and a sorting out. Yet when all is said and done, I believe that there will still be many capable and good people to carry on. They may learn what they're really made of when they have to prove themselves. I hope that some of our family will be in that group. Yes, I'm hopeful, and I guess that more than a few of you may be hopeful too.

    Now, I have to show my husband that very funny letter!

    Leave a comment:


  • MHSC
    replied
    Re: Preparing and reluctant family members

    Originally posted by homestead
    The best we could do was to tell them that if they come, we only have enough put away for ourselves, but we'll let them have it and we'll just leave. We won't turn them away. They seemed surprised by that answer, but I don't know what else we could do.

    I think that is the perfect answer for someone in your situation! It was probably the polar opposite of what they expected so it threw them off for a minute and made them stop and think, 'Wow, this must be serious!' Those are the kinds of seeds we want to plant, the ones that make them think about the consequences they will cause if they refuse to prepare.

    Leave a comment:


  • Amish Country
    replied
    Re: Preparing and reluctant family members

    Hi Homestead!
    Thank you for the post. You have brought a new and unique perspective.

    I don’t think I would be as altruistic in my response. If our kids were of age and that selfish and self centered that they would rather see me and my spouse put our lives in deadly danger than take a few common sense precautions in light of preparing for an expected emergency I would figure it was time for a reality check, both for them and us. To be honest I think I would be very disappointed in them and myself. Maybe that makes me selfish and self centered.

    I am not picking on you but I see us for the most part as a very spoiled, lazy and decadent society as a whole. As a society our thinking has gotten too rigid. Things have been going well for a very long time, several generations in fact. Many seem to believe that it will continue on this way forever or that they have some entitlement to this live style. I wonder if people with these attitudes are future casualties?

    In America the last financial panic, major war on US soil, and large scale famine are no longer in living memory. Living memories of the 1918 flu are almost gone. How to care for even once common childhood diseases such as measles, German measles, whooping cough, mumps and chicken pox, the Great Depression, bank closures and wide scale unemployment are memories that now belong to some grandparents and great grand parents. I am drawing on their stories and invaluable experiences in my own emergency planning.

    You have also made me aware of the need to teach my children even at this age that things can change. They are still very young and we have thoroughly enjoyed spoiling them. We can only hope that when it does hit they will have the resilience and the ability to adapt to the changes that will have to be made. You have illustrated the need for parents to foster self sufficiency and responsibility in children regardless of their ages.

    Thank you again and God bless

    Leave a comment:


  • LMonty
    replied
    Re: Preparing and reluctant family members

    Jonesie, you owe me a keyboard........

    Leave a comment:


  • Jonesie
    replied
    Re: Preparing and reluctant family members

    Originally posted by homestead
    Hi Amish Country,


    The other immediate family members don't want to hear anything about it and just laugh and say that if the pandemic happens, they'll come here to our place. We don't have enough put away for all of them and it would be an impossible dilemma if they all showed up. The best we could do was to tell them that if they come, we only have enough put away for ourselves, but we'll let them have it and we'll just leave. We won't turn them away. They seemed surprised by that answer, but I don't know what else we could do. They're our children and grandchildren. We could easily go to a nearby hospital and volunteer our services, and also accept whatever came of that. We aren't young and the resources should go to those who are.

    It's an odd situation and I hope we never have to face it. We might not because if quarantines go into place, they wouldn't be able to drive here from the cities they live in. Meanwhile, my husband and I are now well prepared with food, water and supplies for the two of us. We've been working on this project for over a year.
    Reading over your post gave me an idea on how to respond to the "We'll to come to your place" syndrome:
    Write them a friendly letter so they begin to realize the gravity of the situation. Perhaps these friends and relatives could be addressed in this way:

    "Well, you are most welcome to come to our house. We would definitely enjoy the company for 1 year.
    And by the way, cousin Jeannie and her 3 kids and mother, and Uncle John and his bedridden wife might also be staying here. So the back bedrooms are probably spoken for. We can partition off an area in the basement or in the attic, whichever you would prefer, as you own private hide-away.
    This is going to be a fun year! It looks like we will be forming a family commune! How exciting!
    (Do you think we could hold a meeting at your place for everyone so we can make up the rules, regulations and cost sharing?)

    OH, and Henry's old army buddy will be staying here with his 3 rottweilers. I do hope the dogs don't get into anyones way. He is starting to paper train them now. And they are all over 4 years old! I hope they don't start chasing the cats all over the house at 3 AM every night.

    And there is a financial problem here. We cannot afford to feed anyone for the year, not even a month. The cost of food & supplies for you alone is $5,000 for the year. So if you will write me a check for $5,000 I will go and buy you the necessary supplies and store them here for you.

    However, we eat a lot of dried vegetables, canned meat, dried eggs and pickled pigs feet. If this is not the kind of diet you like, then by all means you go out now and buy $5,000 worth of food and other supplies that appeal to you and bring it over here for storage.

    But go out and buy the shelving to store it on first.. Can you get it here by next weekend? What time can we expect you?
    And bring all your warm clothing, bedding, bed and mattress ... and an ax to chop wood. All of these items should be in place prior to the beginning of the pandemic.

    I'll make a list of the fuel you can contribute. Don't forget the soap, shampoos and personal items. And your own cell phone.
    And a years supply of toilet paper and your own favorite shampoos and cosmetics.
    Here's a website with a preparation list, or I will print it out for you.

    And we'll figure out what percentage of the rent and bills you will have to contribute later.
    There will be rules. Should you go back to your place to check on it, or if you have to leave here for any reason, you will have to spend a week in the garage with a porta potty. No entry in the house will be allowed until we know you are flu free.
    You will not be able to have any visitors during your stay.
    Pets must remain indoors at all times, and they must be caged if destructive.. No walking the dog.
    I'll make you a list of all the herbs and extracts you will need to use daily to keep healthy, and bring 60 N95 masks, goggles, shoe covers, and an oil lamp.

    All of these supplies must be here before this pandemic breaks out. If you can't get them all together soon, then start stocking up your own place in the meantime.
    Paying us weekly for room and board will not work. Your supplies must actually be here in the house prior to the pandemic, as no leaving the premises will be allowed for any reason. You will not be able to draw on our supplies. To do so will leave us all very short of food, etc.

    So put your food & other items in cardboard boxes, labeled, dated and inventoried.
    We'll be here all day Saturday and Sunday. Which day do you want to come over with the first carload?

    We'd like you to look over the basement and attic to see where we should start making partitions for a room for you and your supplies."


    ----------------------

    Maybe writing up an upbeat friendly letter like the above and sending it to them would be a nice gesture. And also including a list of informative books on flu pandemics would be a plus.
    Anybody have any other ideas?


    If someone sent me a letter like that, I'd change my mind and stay in my own place.

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  • LMonty
    replied
    Re: Preparing and reluctant family members

    Thanks, Ac, but I cant take credit for the concept. I do have the honor of knowing the originator and calling him a friend, and having his permission to share it....

    Leave a comment:


  • Amish Country
    replied
    Re: Preparing and reluctant family members

    Originally posted by LMonty
    Personally, I like the ticket concept- it's been proven in many instances to plant the seed that personal responsibility is needed, by stripping away denial.
    LMONTY I LOVE IT! Your logic and approach is brilliant. It will probably take me a little while to figure out a food and supply list (masks, OTC meds etc.) for the "Entrance Ticket". Maybe one list for adults and one for children. It would be something to slip into the Holiday cards a long with the usual note that all is well and we are actively preparing to keep it that way. While I'm sure it will supply proof positive to some of my relatives that I am certifiable it may get others thinking.

    Another thing you might want to put on the ticket is the fact that it is YOUR house and YOU are in charge if they don't like it they can leave at anytime and not return but the supplies stay put, thank you very much. Also they will be expected to "WORK" and help out as the situation requires and will not be treated like paying guests.

    Leave a comment:

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