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Swine Flu Is More Severe Than Seasonal Flu, Ferret Studies Find

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  • #16
    Re: Swine Flu Is More Severe Than Seasonal Flu, Ferret Studies Find

    From the paper mentioned above:

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Swine Flu Is More Severe Than Seasonal Flu, Ferret Studies Find

      Above table explications:

      (...)Ferrets inoculated with CA/04 virus showed no overt
      clinical signs but displayed mild signs of inactivity (relative
      inactivity index, RII = 1.0). TX/15 or MX/4482 virus
      infection resulted in more pronounced clinical features
      including a slight increase in RII (1.2). Significantly greater
      weight loss was observed with all of the 2009 A(H1N1)
      influenza viruses than with the seasonal influenza virus,
      Brisbane/07 (P<0.05; Table 1). One ferret infected by direct
      contact transmission from a TX/15-inoculated ferret was
      euthanatized at 10 days p.i. due to excessive weight loss and
      three of six MX/4482-inoculated ferrets were euthanatized
      before the end of the experimental period due to severe
      lethargy or excessive weight loss (Table 1). Ferrets inoculated
      with any of the 2009 A(H1N1) influenza virus isolates shed
      high peak mean titers of infectious virus in nasal washes as
      early as day 1 p.i (107.1-7.7 PFU/ml) (figs. S1 and S2), that
      were sustained at titers of ≥104.4 PFU/ml for 5 days p.i. The
      2009 A(H1N1) influenza virus shedding showed similar
      kinetics to Brisbane/07 virus, which was also sustained for 5
      days in ferrets at titers of ≥104.7 PFU/ml. In contrast to
      Brisbane/07, CA/04, TX/15 and MX/4482 viruses were
      detected in the lower respiratory tract at high titers (105.8-6.0
      PFU/g lung tissue) and the intestinal tract. For the latter, viral
      titers were detected in rectal swabs or tissue samples
      collected throughout the intestinal tract (Table 1, fig. S3).
      There was no evidence of viremia or infectious virus in the
      brain, kidney, liver and spleen tissues with any of the viruses
      tested (fig. S3)
      (...)

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Swine Flu Is More Severe Than Seasonal Flu, Ferret Studies Find

        BTW.

        they never found newflu in human intestine or feces, right ?
        or did I miss it ...
        I'm interested in expert panflu damage estimates
        my current links: http://bit.ly/hFI7H ILI-charts: http://bit.ly/CcRgT

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Swine Flu Is More Severe Than Seasonal Flu, Ferret Studies Find

          4482 is not the original Mexican virus but a (strange) mutant
          with as many as 5 differences halfway to the Cancun virus
          which had 11.

          We can't assign the patients and deaths in Mexico to the strains,
          this is still apparantly secret.


          4482 is the same group as 4604,4603,
          Iowa/04,Nonthaburi/102,THA/104,Shandong/1,Michigan/02,Texas/23,...
          I'm interested in expert panflu damage estimates
          my current links: http://bit.ly/hFI7H ILI-charts: http://bit.ly/CcRgT

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Swine Flu Is More Severe Than Seasonal Flu, Ferret Studies Find

            Originally posted by gsgs View Post
            4482 is the same group as 4604,4603,
            Iowa/04,Nonthaburi/102,THA/104,Shandong/1,Michigan/02,Texas/23,...
            Correct, the same variant that includes Thailand/104 and Beijing/3. It's a smaller group, probably accounting for 5% or so of the confirmed Swine Flu cases, for which we have genetic sequences.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Swine Flu Is More Severe Than Seasonal Flu, Ferret Studies Find

              ~10&#37; in my list, even if we exclude the Mexico-City viruses
              which are almost all from that subgroup.

              In Europe:

              A/Finland/554/2009/05/26
              A/Finland/555/2009/05/28
              A/Milan/UHSR1/2009/05/21
              A/Paris/2591/2009/05/01
              A/Paris/2722/2009/06/02


              ------edit---------
              Poland-sequence removed, since it could also be the Cancun-strain

              ----edit-OK, the whole list: (excluding Mexico-City isolates:

              A/Finland/554/2009/05/26
              A/Finland/555/2009/05/28
              A/Milan/UHSR1/2009/05/21
              A/Paris/2591/2009/05/01
              A/Paris/2722/2009/06/02

              A/Nonthaburi/102/2009/05/06
              A/Nonthaburi/104/2009/05/10
              A/THA/104/2009/05/06
              A/Beijing/501/2009/05/21
              A/Beijing/502/2009/05/20
              A/Beijing/3/2009/05/20
              A/Shandong/1/2009/05/10
              A/Nanjing/1/2009/06/18
              A/Shanghai/60T/2009//
              A/Utsunomiya/1/2009//
              A/Tokushima/1/2009//
              A/Shiga/1/2009//

              A/Auckland/4/2009/04/
              A/Auckland/1/2009/04/25
              A/Auckland/3/2009/04/25

              A/Sao Paulo/1454/2009/04/29

              A/Wisconsin/10/2009/05/04
              A/Wisconsin/11/2009/05/04
              A/Wisconsin/08/2009/04/27
              A/Wisconsin/07/2009/04/27
              A/Wisconsin/12/2009/05/07
              A/NY/3337/2009/05/04
              A/NY/3348/2009/04/28
              A/NY/3352/2009/05/06
              A/NY/3351/2009/05/06
              A/Texas/23/2009/04/27
              A/Texas/19/2009/04/26
              A/Texas/33/2009/05/12
              A/Texas/31/2009/05/12
              A/Massachusetts/10/2009/05/03
              A/Massachusetts/11/2009/05/11
              A/Massachusetts/08/2009/05/07
              A/Rhode Island/03/2009/04/30
              A/Rhode Island/02/2009/04/28
              A/Louisiana/05/2009/05/01
              A/Louisiana/03/2009/05/01
              A/Oregon/04/2009/04/27
              A/Florida/11/2009/04/30
              A/Iowa/04/2009/04/24
              A/North Dakota/04/2009/05/11
              A/Vermont/03/2009/05/04
              A/Pennsylvania/06/2009/04/29
              A/Kentucky/06/2009/05/04
              A/Maine/03/2009/05/09
              A/Mexico/4502/2009/04/17
              A/Mexico/4575/2009/04/20
              A/Mexico/4482/2009/04/14
              A/Mexico/4283/2009/04/15
              A/Mexico/4604/2009/04/19
              A/Mexico/4595/2009/04/20
              A/Mexico/4603/2009/04/19
              A/Mexico/4635/2009/04/20
              I'm interested in expert panflu damage estimates
              my current links: http://bit.ly/hFI7H ILI-charts: http://bit.ly/CcRgT

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Swine Flu Is More Severe Than Seasonal Flu, Ferret Studies Find

                Originally posted by gsgs View Post
                ~10% in my list, even if we exclude the Mexico-City viruses
                which are almost all from that subgroup.

                In Europe:

                A/Finland/554/2009/05/26
                A/Finland/555/2009/05/28
                A/Poland/37/2009/05/05
                A/Milan/UHSR1/2009/05/21
                A/Paris/2591/2009/05/01
                A/Paris/2722/2009/06/02
                I would agree that 10% is a reasonable estimate for this group, excluding Mexico City. However, most of the available Mexico City sequences have D247N in the NA segment, placing them in the consensus group (CDC variant i). I also do not include Milan in the variant iii group since I have no NA segment to evaluate.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Swine Flu Is More Severe Than Seasonal Flu, Ferret Studies Find

                  Originally posted by gsgs View Post
                  We can't assign the patients and deaths in Mexico to the strains,
                  this is still apparantly secret.

                  ..
                  CA/04 was the pediatric patient with no complications

                  TX/15 was a pediatric patient with fatal respiratory illness

                  MX/4482 was a 29 year old female with severe respiratory disease

                  Netherlands/602 was a three year old that recovered with Tamiflu (family had just returned from Mexico)

                  Four separate viruses in four different patients resulting if varying levels of disease. However, the same virus infecting all four patients could also result in a variety of outcomes. I suspect the same may be true for the poor innocent ferrets.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Swine Flu Is More Severe Than Seasonal Flu, Ferret Studies Find

                    I hope ferrets are out of job soon as swine flu models. They have been at it for awhile.

                    I'm wondering if I'm misunderstanding what the expert is saying below about this being the first time a human flu, (I guess meaning a human-to-human spreading flu), has been found to infect the intestinal tract of a ferret.



                    Read latest breaking news, updates, and headlines. Vancouver Sun offers information on latest national and international events & more.

                    Swine flu virus unpredictable, experts warn
                    By Sharon Kirkey, Canwest News ServiceJuly 8, 2009

                    ""That's not normal. Influenza should just be in the lung," said Earl Brown, an influenza expert at the University of Ottawa. "This is the first time a human flu has done this in a ferret. The question is: how does it get there? You don't like to see a flu virus move outside the lung."


                    I don't have a background in this, but wouldn't "A/Hong Kong/1/68 (H 3 N 2)" be a human flu?


                    Arch Virol (1987) 93:303-308
                    "Recently GLATHE et at.
                    using immunofluorescent staining (2) demonstrated that influenza virus [A/
                    Hong Kong/1/68 (H 3 N 2)] replicates in the ferret intestinal tract."
                    _____________________________________________

                    Ask Congress to Investigate COVID Origins and Government Response to Pandemic.

                    i love myself. the quietest. simplest. most powerful. revolution ever. ---- nayyirah waheed

                    "...there’s an obvious contest that’s happening between different sectors of the colonial ruling class in this country. And they would, if they could, lump us into their beef, their struggle." ---- Omali Yeshitela, African People’s Socialist Party

                    (My posts are not intended as advice or professional assessments of any kind.)
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                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Swine Flu Is More Severe Than Seasonal Flu, Ferret Studies Find

                      I don't have a background in this, but wouldn't "A/Hong Kong/1/68 (H 3 N 2)" be a human flu?
                      yes, it is human if there are no animal species mentioned, e.g., (A/Quail/Hong Kong/G1/97 (H9N2)) is NOT human.

                      .
                      "The next major advancement in the health of American people will be determined by what the individual is willing to do for himself"-- John Knowles, Former President of the Rockefeller Foundation

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Swine Flu Is More Severe Than Seasonal Flu, Ferret Studies Find

                        apparantly Earl Brown was wrong. Or was incorrectly quoted
                        I'm interested in expert panflu damage estimates
                        my current links: http://bit.ly/hFI7H ILI-charts: http://bit.ly/CcRgT

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Swine Flu Is More Severe Than Seasonal Flu, Ferret Studies Find

                          Originally posted by gsgs View Post
                          apparantly Earl Brown was wrong. Or was incorrectly quoted
                          I think you will find numerous "flu experts" that will tell you that influenza viruses do not replicate or attack mammalian intestinal tracks. Perhaps they need to be introduced to Bird Flu H5N1 and Swine Flu H1N1, both from the lab and from patient history. These viruses do not read college texts.

                          To find something, you need a real desire to look for it and apply energy in that direction. If you are not really excited about detecting H5N1 in wild fowl in your country, you will likely not find it. If you are not really motivated about detecting H1N1 in fecal samples, you will not find it. It takes work beyond the standard nasal swab.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Swine Flu Is More Severe Than Seasonal Flu, Ferret Studies Find

                            "Swine flu virus unpredictable, experts warn
                            By Sharon Kirkey, Canwest News ServiceJuly 8, 2009

                            ""That's not normal. Influenza should just be in the lung," said Earl Brown, an influenza expert at the University of Ottawa. "This is the first time a human flu has done this in a ferret. The question is: how does it get there? You don't like to see a flu virus move outside the lung."
                            "


                            Originally posted by Mamabird View Post
                            Perhaps they need to be introduced to Bird Flu H5N1 and Swine Flu H1N1, both from the lab and from patient history.
                            ...
                            If you are not really motivated about detecting H1N1 in fecal samples, you will not find it. It takes work beyond the standard nasal swab.
                            I read this Brown comment diferently.

                            I'm trying to suppose a diferent view, cos the statement was from an flu researcher which knows well lab ferrets documentation.

                            It was not about a negation of the existance of flu viruses capable of pervaded GI tracts of ferrets.

                            Ferrets infections were obviously very well documented, because used as lab guinea animals.

                            Brown remarks about previous unseen heavy effects of this chimera new flu on the GI tract of lab ferrets, done by an HUMAN flu virus which are fit to cause epidemic/pandemic large numbers.

                            Bird flu are not capable yet of make such large epidemics/pandemic through the human population, but this new flu is, so Brown looks at it as an more human flu than the actual bird flu.

                            He probably wants to highlight that human viruses usualy did not have such effects on ferrets, only the bird flu, and only chimerized flu viruses which consisted of avian components, and etc, as is this new flu, which consists of swine, avian, and human.

                            Also, if after numerous checkings, and numerous filtering of send plates, you can find only a few little grains of gold, this not indicate that above the river is a notable quantity of gold, which point to a need to open a gold mine.
                            To point it with more probability, usualy is needed to wash out much more gold quantity of evidence.

                            So, from this human pandemic virus, probably Brown expected to NOT find in such much more times, and more quantity, an GI new flu virus pervasion in ferets.
                            ___

                            All the above comment is intended without entering scientific discussions, just an observation.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Swine Flu Is More Severe Than Seasonal Flu, Ferret Studies Find

                              Originally posted by Mamabird View Post
                              ........"flu experts" that will tell you that influenza viruses do not replicate or attack mammalian intestinal tracks. Perhaps they need to be introduced to Bird Flu H5N1 and Swine Flu H1N1, both from the lab and from patient history. ...........
                              Why do you think novel H1N1 is attacking intestines? Does it have both a2,3 and a2,6 binding properties, i.e., a less-than-perfect a2,6 binding? While we know that cleavage options can impact where a virus unfolds, I've read about other factors - like a shortened NA stalk - that impact cleavage. Is there something beyond RBD and cleavage amino acids, that determine where a virus will cleave and/or bind which are part of this virus?

                              .
                              "The next major advancement in the health of American people will be determined by what the individual is willing to do for himself"-- John Knowles, Former President of the Rockefeller Foundation

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Swine Flu Is More Severe Than Seasonal Flu, Ferret Studies Find

                                Originally posted by AlaskaDenise View Post
                                Why do you think novel H1N1 is attacking intestines? Does it have both a2,3 and a2,6 binding properties, i.e., a less-than-perfect a2,6 binding? While we know that cleavage options can impact where a virus unfolds, I've read about other factors - like a shortened NA stalk - that impact cleavage. Is there something beyond RBD and cleavage amino acids, that determine where a virus will cleave and/or bind which are part of this virus?

                                .
                                I'm seeing two things here, one genetic, and the other from patient history.

                                The genetics is the lack of E627K in PB2, allowing the virus to efficiently replicate in warmer temperatures like that found in the lower respiratory system and GI track.

                                The patient history, consistent across all countries, is 20 to 25&#37; experience with nausea, vomiting and diarrhea. Those symptoms are generally not found to such high levels in seasonal flu patients, and would lead to suspect possible infection in the GI track.

                                Now, I'm not saying with assurance that you will find high viral levels in rectal swabs, but you might. The point is, no one is looking. It really goes back to my point of a couple of months ago: "I wouldn't be concerned with breathing cabin air in an airplane, but I would think twice about eating the food, or going to the restroom."

                                We just need to take with a grain of salt statements made by "authoritative sources" that would lead us to believe that they fully understand this virus. I suspect it may hold additional surprises.

                                Comment

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