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Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2015

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  • Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2013

    I find it pretty amazing how this sinkhole is such a shape-shifter.
    Good find, Mixin! There's a news report now (Just saw it linked to from the Facebook site):

    BAYOU CORNE, LA (WAFB) -
    Officials report they believe the giant sinkhole is much deeper than originally thought and additional materials have surfaced...
    _____________________________________________

    Ask Congress to Investigate COVID Origins and Government Response to Pandemic.

    i love myself. the quietest. simplest. most powerful. revolution ever. ---- nayyirah waheed

    "...there’s an obvious contest that’s happening between different sectors of the colonial ruling class in this country. And they would, if they could, lump us into their beef, their struggle." ---- Omali Yeshitela, African People’s Socialist Party

    (My posts are not intended as advice or professional assessments of any kind.)
    Never forget Excalibur.

    Comment


    • Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2013

      http://theadvocate.com/news/6544908-...piping-problem
      State looking into piping problem in cavern near Bayou Corne sinkhole

      BY DAVID J. MITCHELL

      River Parishes bureau

      July 18, 2013
      An internal piping problem inside a Dow Hydrocarbons underground storage cavern in Assumption Parish prompted automatic emergency systems to burn off propylene and shut the cavity, but the situation presents no immediate public safety risk...
      The Advocate is waiting to hear back from Dow on this. Part of the pipe is missing for unknown reasons.
      _____________________________________________

      Ask Congress to Investigate COVID Origins and Government Response to Pandemic.

      i love myself. the quietest. simplest. most powerful. revolution ever. ---- nayyirah waheed

      "...there’s an obvious contest that’s happening between different sectors of the colonial ruling class in this country. And they would, if they could, lump us into their beef, their struggle." ---- Omali Yeshitela, African People’s Socialist Party

      (My posts are not intended as advice or professional assessments of any kind.)
      Never forget Excalibur.

      Comment


      • Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2013

        We have an update on the Dow cavern:

        July 18, 2013
        11:40 a.m. Report Investigated

        Earlier, a report was made to our office about an incident at the Dow Chemical Facility in Grand Bayou. Below are he findings (from the facility) specific to this report:

        Their is a hanging string failure to Dow 3A; however, there are no issues to the packer sleeve or the casing. The cavern is shut in and all of the safety devices did work properly and the product was sent to the flare. Afterwards, the cavern was completely shut in.

        They are currently performing an interface log to check the product location, to develop the plan for the work over of the well. All lines are shut in and no product is being moved at this time until the log is complete and a plan is developed.

        No risk to the public has been identified and DNR is continuing to investigate this report.



        In other news also at the above link:

        July 18, 2013
        9:45 a.m. Burp Occurance

        We have been advised that there was a burp in the sinkhole sometime overnight. Any additional information received will be posted accordingly.
        (picture at the link)

        July 19, 2013
        10:30 a.m. Sinkhole, Increased Activity

        There is lots of activity on the sinkhole this morning. Dr Horton reports that this increase in activity started about 5:00 a.m. (this morning).

        There is abundant surface water movement, as you can see in the video posted (from Pad 3) on our YouTube site, http://www.youtube.com/user/assumptionla

        Also, currently, a burp event is occurring in the center of the sink hole.

        We will keep everyone posted of any events that may occur.
        The salvage of human life ought to be placed above barter and exchange ~ Louis Harris, 1918

        Comment


        • Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2013

          I finally got a chance to watch the videos from the last meeting on 7/16


          Here's the link to the presentation that goes with it:


          I didn't hear any encouraging news except that the experts are continuing to work on the problems.

          There is some disagreement between Texas Brine and the other group of experts as to what's being seen on some of the data; I'll summarize the expert opinions since that was basically what was being presented.

          They have determined that the disrupted rock zone (DRZ) does exist and it appears to be shaped similar to an hourglass. The top half widens to about the size of the sinkhole.

          The sinkhole continues to expand to the south and they believe that's due to the sand from the hole slowly trickling down through the DRZ. One of the questions asked was what would happen if the sinkhole expands until it hits the bayou and that is something the experts are now considering.

          They have identified 2 probable and 3 possible sources of the bubbling gas in the sinkhole. Two pockets are adjacent to the DRZ, which makes them strong candidates and the other three are less likely due to their distance away from the DRZ. As for the possible amounts of gas they could contain: 2 @ 60 million cubic feet, the 3 @ 150 million cubic feet and they range from 8-10 acres/ 5-10 feet in depth. They don't know how much gas the actually contain since TB has been venting for quite some time. Based on this info, they estimated it could take up to 5 years at the current vent rate to deplete the gas deposits.

          They have no idea what is causing the extreme fluctuations in the depth of the cavern. The brine pressure is up to about 600 PSI inside the cavern. They have conferred with world experts and this is a never-seen-before situation. One resident asked if they could see a hole in the side of it and they said they could not see anything definite. The question of fresh water came up and they are looking at the possibility of fresh water entering the cavern. Although they think that the pressure that far below the surface should be high enough to push any fresh water up through the DRZ.

          If I could write titles for the different videos, my choice for Part 8 would be:
          Texas Brine Rep Demonstrates How to Throw Fuel on a Hot Fire.
          The salvage of human life ought to be placed above barter and exchange ~ Louis Harris, 1918

          Comment


          • Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2013

            Here are several of the images from the presentation that I thought were very helpful. The long lines on the seismic events graph are believed to be caused by sand and gravel falling down into the DRZ.

            Click image for larger version

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            Click image for larger version

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            Click image for larger version

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            The salvage of human life ought to be placed above barter and exchange ~ Louis Harris, 1918

            Comment


            • Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2013

              Thank you, mixin! I will look at the technical info more later, but the analysis still seems pretty changeable at this point. (I saw the remark about what was thought to be the 'Big Hum' now being thought to be a layer of oyster shells...)

              Regarding the community stress, I've wondered why Occidental Petroleum/Chemical is not helping out with settlements. I think they are taking the recovered oil out of the sinkhole since they own the mineral rights to it and are selling it. The state believes they have some responsibility in all this since they owned the well property and were in some sort of lease agreement with TB in the salt mining operation.

              http://www.claimsjournal.com/news/so.../16/217582.htm

              But I lost hope Occidental would volunteer to help when I found these links when searching for an update:

              http://www.democracynow.org/2003/5/2...ed_for_role_in
              http://amazonwatch.org/work/block-1ab

              Ethically, though, I think a landlord should be partly responsible for environmental problems originating on their property, especially if they have been benefiting from a business operation conducted there. We'd all want our neighbors to be that responsible.
              _____________________________________________

              Ask Congress to Investigate COVID Origins and Government Response to Pandemic.

              i love myself. the quietest. simplest. most powerful. revolution ever. ---- nayyirah waheed

              "...there’s an obvious contest that’s happening between different sectors of the colonial ruling class in this country. And they would, if they could, lump us into their beef, their struggle." ---- Omali Yeshitela, African People’s Socialist Party

              (My posts are not intended as advice or professional assessments of any kind.)
              Never forget Excalibur.

              Comment


              • Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2013

                Emily,
                Please do let us know what you think about the technical data.

                The last time they measured the depth of the sinkhole, they ran out of line at 500 feet. It was said at the meeting they were going to buy a 750 foot tagline and someone joked that they better buy a thousand foot one. They should followed that advice. The video shows John dropping line for almost 5 minutes; it was still dropping when he ran out again and he showed the empty spool. I hope he had some type of automatic spool roller on board

                July 20, 2013
                1:50 p.m. Update

                John Boudreaux has reported another depth survey has been completed in the center of the sinkhole. A video has been posted on YouTube showing that 750′ of cord was used and all 750′ went down to bottom. This information has been sent to the Blue Ribbon Commission for there review.


                The salvage of human life ought to be placed above barter and exchange ~ Louis Harris, 1918

                Comment


                • Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2013

                  I just watched Mr. Boudreaux's video documenting his common sense depth finding efforts and I think it is irrefutable that the sinkhole is at least 750 ft. deep, no matter what the sonar tests are showing.

                  Another possible failure of sonar measurements is the bizarre reports of the the cavern bottom is moving up and down by increments of 100's of feet at a time in a fashion unexplainable by world experts in salt mechanics, per the consultant remarks at the latest meeting.

                  I'm wondering if fluctuations in insect-generated background noise are behind the mystery. About 4 minutes into the video below of a community briefing back in January, a resident raises a question about termite mounds being disturbed by the seismic testing:

                  <object width="560" height="315"><param name="movie" value="//www.youtube.com/v/ikVyeGt5eJ0?hl=en_US&amp;version=3"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="//www.youtube.com/v/ikVyeGt5eJ0?hl=en_US&amp;version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="560" height="315" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>

                  I couldn't find reports of mounds being physically disturbed by seismic tests when I was searching back in January, but I did find that termites use seismic signals for communication and even a sonar-like signaling to analyze food sources. So ever since then I've wondered if termite signals could throw off seismic and sonar analysis:

                  Geophone detection of subterranean termite and ant activity.
                  Effect of Vibratory Soldier Alarm Signals on the Foraging Behavior of Subterranean Termites
                  Sonar-like analysis of feeding noise by termites:
                  http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0224123058.htm

                  I hope Mr. Mr. Boudreaux can find an even longer piece of wire. I thought the solution mining industry had some sort of wire they used in caverns for measuring depths down to thousands of feet, but maybe I'm wrong. I see that lasers and cameras are being employed to measure caves:

                  Measuring Cave Dimensions Remotely Using Laser Pointers And A Downhole Camera

                  But I suppose that technology wouldn't work in a fluid-filled void.
                  _____________________________________________

                  Ask Congress to Investigate COVID Origins and Government Response to Pandemic.

                  i love myself. the quietest. simplest. most powerful. revolution ever. ---- nayyirah waheed

                  "...there’s an obvious contest that’s happening between different sectors of the colonial ruling class in this country. And they would, if they could, lump us into their beef, their struggle." ---- Omali Yeshitela, African People’s Socialist Party

                  (My posts are not intended as advice or professional assessments of any kind.)
                  Never forget Excalibur.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2013

                    Since the sinkhole bubbling started again earlier this month, I'm wondering if the bottom of the cone has opened up a bit. That might allow the line to go farther down than it has in the past.

                    Hecox mentioned the cavern floor fluctuation could be caused by an equipment malfunction or some other reason. Given they have a tendency (IMO) to emphasize the positive and gloss over the negative a bit, I'm doubtful that they consider equipment failure a probability.

                    It's interesting to watch how they present the information. It seems to me they all only relate what actions have been taken, stats and such; and offer no more than what they deem necessary. Then they make the residents ask the hard questions and only give negative info when they are pressed to do so. It's a good thing that some of the residents are persistent at gathering information and asking questions.

                    For example, when they were talking about the 60 million cubic feet gas deposit. One lady told them what they were saying meant nothing to her, to please tell her something she understood. That's when they finally admitted at the current rate, it could take up to 5 years to burn the gas off.

                    When officials withhold information and only share it when pressured, it doesn't do much to form trust. I'm of the opinion that they do have some idea about what's going on down there.
                    The salvage of human life ought to be placed above barter and exchange ~ Louis Harris, 1918

                    Comment


                    • Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2013

                      One of the contributors at the Facebook site who obviously has some O&G industry knowledge brought up using a "slick line" to measure the sinkhole depth, perhaps putting it on a small barge to do so. Here's an example of the latest technology:

                      xhttp://www.slb.com/services/well_intervention/slickline/live_digital_services.aspx

                      There's a little animation in the lower right hand corner and this unit even has a gamma ray detector on it that finds a hot zone depicted in red.

                      You wonder why this technology hasn't been used yet. These units sound expensive, so perhaps there's concern about the instability of the edge of the sinkhole while launching a barge, or even worries about the barge getting sucked underwater if a vortex suddenly activated.
                      Last edited by Emily; July 30, 2013, 01:21 PM. Reason: Corrected animation location.
                      _____________________________________________

                      Ask Congress to Investigate COVID Origins and Government Response to Pandemic.

                      i love myself. the quietest. simplest. most powerful. revolution ever. ---- nayyirah waheed

                      "...there’s an obvious contest that’s happening between different sectors of the colonial ruling class in this country. And they would, if they could, lump us into their beef, their struggle." ---- Omali Yeshitela, African People’s Socialist Party

                      (My posts are not intended as advice or professional assessments of any kind.)
                      Never forget Excalibur.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2013

                        What??!! There's something more scientific than the "Just drop your line down until your sinker hits the bottom" approach? Can't we put a webcam on the sinker to take a good look around? Joking aside, that seems to work ok... they just need a longer line.

                        Here's the most recent bubble map posted by TB at their site on July 25


                        Click image for larger version

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                        The salvage of human life ought to be placed above barter and exchange ~ Louis Harris, 1918

                        Comment


                        • Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2013

                          Joking aside, that seems to work ok... they just need a longer line.
                          You just wonder how long a line, and whether the county watercraft can float it.

                          I recently got the impression that the sonar measurements done that indicated a shorter and possibly fluctuating sinkhole depth were done with a device normally used for boat navigation or finding fish - like crappie. So no interference from terrestrial insects needed to confuse that technology, I guess. Just debris and silt getting burped around at times might do the trick.
                          Last edited by Emily; July 31, 2013, 12:34 AM. Reason: Typo fix.
                          _____________________________________________

                          Ask Congress to Investigate COVID Origins and Government Response to Pandemic.

                          i love myself. the quietest. simplest. most powerful. revolution ever. ---- nayyirah waheed

                          "...there’s an obvious contest that’s happening between different sectors of the colonial ruling class in this country. And they would, if they could, lump us into their beef, their struggle." ---- Omali Yeshitela, African People’s Socialist Party

                          (My posts are not intended as advice or professional assessments of any kind.)
                          Never forget Excalibur.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2013

                            Hard to say how long of a line they need. I wonder if there is some kind of bubble experiment that could help determine the size of the hole they are coming through? Do bubbles get bigger as they come to the surface? I assume the hole is not very big.

                            I don't even understand the bubbling. Does the hole close from the silt/sand/debris and then opens with the burps (allowing the bubbling to begin again) OR does the gas temporarily deplete and the bubbling begins again when more accumulates?

                            Maybe they should leave that line down there and attach a buoy to it.

                            I thought I remembered that they used sonar but it never occurred to me that it might be a fish-finder type.

                            In the new bubble site pic, what are those 2 black lines on the lower left with all the bubble sites? Are they gas pipelines?
                            The salvage of human life ought to be placed above barter and exchange ~ Louis Harris, 1918

                            Comment


                            • Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2013

                              In the new bubble site pic, what are those 2 black lines on the lower left with all the bubble sites? Are they gas pipelines?
                              Good question, mixin. If I'm looking at the right lines, the bubbles seem to follow them. Since the sinkhole water is also black, maybe those lines are bayous. (Though I don't think that rules out gas lines or old wells being present in the same area.)

                              Google map's satellite view shows the sinkhole now, and those lines I'm referring to are on the map, but not so dark in color. (Maybe the amount of water they hold and how they are captured by satellite fluctuates with rainfall patterns?)

                              https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Bayou...70341&t=h&z=15

                              There's more news about the situation:

                              http://www.nola.com/politics/index.s...ndal_sues.html
                              Louisiana sues Texas Brine for damage caused by Bayou Corne sinkhole
                              By The Associated Press
                              on August 02, 2013 at 3:50 PM, updated August 02, 2013 at 9:02 PM
                              [snip]
                              Also named as a defendant was Occidental Chemical Corp., a New York-based company from whom Texas Brine leased the site...
                              http://theadvocate.com/home/6670493-...e-will-not-sit
                              Honor?: 'People will not sit by'
                              [snip]
                              Hand-drawn posters declaring ?No end in sight,? and ?gas, gas everywhere,? were taped to a flatbed trailer used for a stage where a Catholic priest, a half-dozen residents, an environmental researcher and Russel L. Honor?, a retired Army lieutenant general, all spoke under a broiling sun.

                              ?The last time I was in a place this dangerous it was Desert Storm,? joked Russel Honor?, the Army general ordered to deal with the chaos after Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans in August 2005.

                              Now a civilian trying to raise the profile of the Bayou Corne sinkhole disaster, Honor? then apologized to the crowd, ?on behalf of the people of Louisiana, because democracy has failed you.

                              ?The resources the extraction companies are taking from this green Earth so close to where we sit today are critical to America, but there has to be a balance between extraction from our Earth and caring for the Earth....
                              _____________________________________________

                              Ask Congress to Investigate COVID Origins and Government Response to Pandemic.

                              i love myself. the quietest. simplest. most powerful. revolution ever. ---- nayyirah waheed

                              "...there’s an obvious contest that’s happening between different sectors of the colonial ruling class in this country. And they would, if they could, lump us into their beef, their struggle." ---- Omali Yeshitela, African People’s Socialist Party

                              (My posts are not intended as advice or professional assessments of any kind.)
                              Never forget Excalibur.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2013

                                Follow the link to read the detailed story - Ro

                                Life at Louisiana's Toxic Sinkhole: An Eco-Disaster Continues With No End in Sight
                                Thursday, 08 August 2013 09:43
                                By Mike Ludwig, Truthout | Report

                                The view from Mike Schaff's small airplane is startling. Bayous snake through pastures and swamp forest of Assumption Parish in rural Louisiana. Small residential neighborhoods and gangly networks of petrochemical pipelines, storage tanks and wastewater impounds dot the landscape. In the middle of it all is what looks like a small lake that has spilled into the swamp forest and left patches of cypress trees dead and gray. But the body of dark liquid is not a lake, and it's not supposed to be there.

                                We're flying over Bayou Corne on the one-year anniversary of an unprecedented environmental disaster. The trouble started last May, when small earthquakes rumbled through the area, and fisherman observed the bayous boiling like crawfish pots in certain spots. Then, on August 3, 2012, an underground salt brine cavern collapsed beneath Bayou Corne, and a massive sinkhole opened up on the surface, replacing swamp forest with an expanding slurry pit of oil and salty water from deep underground. Since Truthout first reported on the disaster in December, the sinkhole has grown from eight acres to 24 acres across.

                                Observers point out that there is at least some good news. While the sinkhole continues to expand, it appears to be growing away from the neighborhood of 150 homes that has been under a continuous evacuation order for the past year.
                                ....
                                A year after a toxic sinkhole caused by one of Texas Brine's salt caverns either drove neighborhood homeowners in Louisiana out of their houses or left them with ongoing health issues…
                                Twitter: @RonanKelly13
                                The views expressed are mine alone and do not represent the views of my employer or any other person or organization.

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