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Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2015

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  • Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012

    Thank you for allowing me to answer Emily, and proud to be here, Laidback Al. A wealth of information on this site.

    Comment


    • Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012

      Welcome to Flutrackers, freedomrox! Thanks very much for the background about the caverns - that explains why TB was milling upwards
      from the top of Oxy3 back in 2010. That was a big mystery to me, since I got the impression, (could be wrong), that current convention was to mill from the top down. But if the bottom of the cavern had already been mined through to shale by 1997, then they couldn't mine in that direction. Given that the 1997 diagram shows the cavern right up against the edge of the dome, maybe the cavern should have been plugged at that point, and never re-worked. (If only...)

      That is very interesting about the possibility of filling the bottom of the cavern with cement. It does sound like it would have been expensive, but as you point out, look at the expenses incurred from this unprecedented geological disaster. There's the new road, the berm, all the thumping and drilling, and now the 2-month 3D seismic survey. (Like the one Golden Gate did on the north side of the dome in 2007?) Then there is the 6 month long (and counting) evacuation costs and the human toll from that.

      I read about the T-Rex studying the area on your blog and in the local papers. There's a good document with photos on that equipment here:
      http://esg.eri.ucsb.edu/sites/esg.er...EES@UTexas.pdf

      It seems to travel all over the country studying high risk earthquake areas like Seattle, New Madrid, etc. I hope all the studies and new vents have positive results - soon!
      “‘i love myself.’
      the
      quietest.
      simplest.
      most
      powerful.
      revolution
      ever.” ---- nayyirah waheed

      Avatar: Franz Marc, Liegender Hund im Schnee 1911 (My posts are not intended as advice or professional assessments of any kind.)

      Comment


      • Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012

        Originally posted by mixin View Post
        Good find, Emily

        The cavern in figure 7 sure looks like the current collapsing cavern. If so, then what happened to the shale sheath that prevented past problems?

        The helicorders are really active at this time. Texas Brine was ordered to put the helis online, which they did; now they are back down to only 6 online for La. It would be great if we had some sort of situation update when we see action like what's happening today. Maybe they have already started with the vibrating equipment mentioned below?

        Name:  a86d01dd78473a034f4c4b1f067ce998.jpg
Views: 1
Size:  98.9 KB
        http://folkworm.ceri.memphis.edu/heli_temp/

        There was a meeting yesterday but nothing has been posted yet at the parish site. However, the news covered it. It appears that the residents are understandably losing patience.

        Regarding 3d seismic monitoring:
        http://www.nbc33tv.com/node/39541

        The credit will have to go to Sandia for having these documents available. They will email you the articles you request from this list:

        https://ugsprtech.sandia.gov/Pag_Rep...g=Geotechnical

        Thanks for sharing that unusual seismic pattern. It sure does look like something generated by research equipment. People are understandably worried about all the tests causing structural damage. I've never heard of anything like that happening, but it would be good to know there was insurance held to cover all possibilities.
        “‘i love myself.’
        the
        quietest.
        simplest.
        most
        powerful.
        revolution
        ever.” ---- nayyirah waheed

        Avatar: Franz Marc, Liegender Hund im Schnee 1911 (My posts are not intended as advice or professional assessments of any kind.)

        Comment


        • Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012

          What happened at the meeting was a joke. All brand new players, and a one Mr. "X" that kept brow-beating the audience with how he had left Brazil to come up here. He also stated he was a part of the Golden Gate proprietary survey in 2007, and that he was getting a tiny portion of that survey of the westernmost side to compare with the new VSP and 3 D survey to take place sometime this month. One more very interesting thing he did reveal was that they could not perform the 3 D surveys any further east around the other caverns due to the Danger of disturbing them.

          I can provide the videos if you need them. Also the USGS heli's are gone. They have now been totally replaced with the geophones and are much more sensitive. Also, the Texas Brine Geo 3 in the 1000 ft. borehole they have been drilling should be online soon. Dr. Stephen Horton has sounded the alarm that much more seismic activity is taking place, signaling what I believe to be a continuation of the last event.

          http://assumptionla.wordpress.com/

          One question. Which one of the documents did you request to get the 1997 graphic, please? I would like to insert it into one of my articles.

          All appreciation to you 'mixin' and others for your investigative skills.
          Last edited by sharon sanders; February 4th, 2013, 07:10 PM. Reason: edited name to be "X"

          Comment


          • Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012

            From today's parish update:
            It has been reported to us, by Dr. Steve Horton, that there has been an above normal recording of seismic activity within the last few days. Should additional details or information regarding this situation become available, they will be posted.
            http://assumptionla.wordpress.com/20...smic-activity/

            Texas Brine also has a recent update:
            1. The sinkhole has remained stable since Jan. 19, when vegetative material
            rose to the surface and a small area sloughed in on the southern perimeter.
            The vegetative material was corralled on the southeastern edge of the
            sinkhole and is expected to be removed this coming week. No other changes
            to the size or shape of the sinkhole have been observed.
            2. Rehabilitation and elevation of the first segment of the access road that runs
            southward from Hwy. 70 along the western side of the pipeline right-of-way
            has been completed. A total of approximately 35,000 cubic yards of fill dirt
            were added to raise the road elevation and also create a drill pad for a 1,000-
            foot deep geophone well. Following the installation of the mat to support
            the drilling rig, the first casing was driven, the rig was assembled and
            drilling began early Sunday morning .
            3. Construction of the square-shaped containment berm surrounding the
            sinkhole has begun. Work on the southern segment is underway and
            stretches from the Texas Brine site, westward across the pipeline right-of-
            way to the southern end of the access road off of Hwy. 70. This road will
            continue to be upgraded southward from the 1,000-foot deep geophone well
            and will serve as the western boundary of the containment system. Texas
            Brine’s facility site will provide containment on the eastern boundary. The
            northern boundary, when complete, will connect the Texas Brine entrance
            road to the access road nearer to Hwy. 70.
            4. Two additional relief wells have been installed on the Texas Brine site. This
            brings the total relief well count on the site to four. The first relief well,
            installed in late October, continues to flare natural gas at the surface. The
            other three are being prepared to start flaring next week.
            Two new relief wells have been installed off site: one on the access road
            near the intersection with Hwy. 70, and another on the northern side of
            Hwy.70 west of the rig road entrance.
            Seven additional relief wells will be installed in the area to complete Phase
            II. Installation of those wells is targeted for completion by mid-February.
            An additional ten (10) relief wells will be installed for Phase III as access to
            properties becomes available.
            5. The 3D seismic project is progressing. Project design is complete. Efforts
            now are concentrated on surveying and on landowner access and permitting.
            Representatives of the 3D seismic contractor are working to secure
            permission from Bayou Corne homeowners to place seismic geophones on
            their property. The placement of the geophones in the Bayou Corne
            community, as well as all other receiver points in the project design area, is
            important to the acquisition of sufficient data to generate as clear an image
            as possible of the subsurface geologic conditions to a depth of 7,000 feet.
            6. The passive seismic monitoring system that will replace the USGS
            geophones currently in use is nearing completion. The system will be
            comprised of a 480-foot deep geophone array, individual geophones placed
            in six, 80-foot deep cased wells and a geophone array placed in Well #1, and
            the final component, a geophone array placed in the 1000-foot deep well
            being drilled adjacent to the access road west of the Texas Brine site. The
            entire system is expected to be in place by mid-February. The seismic data
            collected by all of the geophones in this passive system will be directed to
            the same repository for analysis.
            7. After being closed in for the past two weeks, the Observation Well was
            opened Thursday in attempt to remove any liquid hydrocarbon remaining in
            cavern #3. That process yielded no liquid hydrocarbon. The most recent
            logging of the cavern indicated that floor had risen 100 feet since last
            measured on Jan. 18.
            8. To date, 23 pairs of LEL and H2S indoor monitors have been installed in 16
            qualifying structures in the Bayou Corne community. By the middle of next
            week, an additional 22 monitors are to be installed in14 other structures..
            The monitors are designed to detect both the Lower Explosive Limit (LEL)
            and hydrogen sulfide gas if any were to migrate into enclosed spaces in slab-
            on-grade homes and structures as well as unvented spaces beneath raised
            dwellings and structures. If either is detected at the preset alarm levels (10%
            for LEL and 10 ppm for hydrogen sulfide) the monitor alarm will be
            triggered and a signal will be transmitted to local emergency responders. To
            assure transmission signal strength, a series of outside antennas have been
            installed at carefully chosen locations throughout the Bayou Corne
            community. To date, after over 90 indoor air sampling events by DEQ and
            Texas Brine contractors, no detectable levels of LEL or hydrogen sulfide
            have been found.
            http://www.texasbrine.com/response/2...TBC-Update.pdf
            The salvage of human life ought to be placed above barter and exchange ~ Louis Harris, 1918

            Comment


            • Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012

              Thanks for the kind words, Freedomrox... and welcome to the forum.

              I thought when they brought the internationally-recognized group, Itasca, to try to get some answers to the unknowns that we would finally get some good info on what's happening. Was any mention made of them in this last meeting?
              The salvage of human life ought to be placed above barter and exchange ~ Louis Harris, 1918

              Comment


              • Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012

                Actually no mention was made of them at all.

                From here you can see the presentation itself. Another meeting is supposed to be held on February 6th, if it hasn't been changed.

                <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/_C4v37mZFZU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
                Last edited by sharon sanders; February 4th, 2013, 11:21 PM. Reason: installed embed link

                Comment


                • Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012

                  One question. Which one of the documents did you request to get the 1997 graphic, please? I would like to insert it into one of my articles.
                  Here's the one that the diagram of Oxy3 is in, freedomrox:

                  Neal, J. T. and T.R. Magorian. April 1995. Geologic Site Characterization (GSC) Principles Derived from Storage and Mining Projects in Salt, With Application to Environmental Surety. SAND95-2400J. Sandia National Laboratories, Albuquerque, NM.


                  Once again, all the credit goes to Neal and Magorian, (and Sandia for having that Unlimited Distribution.)

                  Thanks for sharing insights about the latest briefing and the video links.
                  “‘i love myself.’
                  the
                  quietest.
                  simplest.
                  most
                  powerful.
                  revolution
                  ever.” ---- nayyirah waheed

                  Avatar: Franz Marc, Liegender Hund im Schnee 1911 (My posts are not intended as advice or professional assessments of any kind.)

                  Comment


                  • Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012

                    It just hit me Emily.... This paper was published in April 1995. So, they knew then or even 1994.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012

                      Originally posted by freedomrox View Post
                      It just hit me Emily.... This paper was published in April 1995. So, they knew then or even 1994.
                      Good catch, freedomrox! One of the journals had published it in 1997, but looking at that again, it had been accepted in 1995, same date as in the Sandia reference, so the cavern trouble was indeed known a few years earlier than 1997.

                      Here's some new articles on developments in the sinkhole story.


                      Advocate: Residents - Insurance policies canceled

                      Insurance is great until you need it...


                      This is an article on the meeting tonight with politicians.

                      Advocate: Meeting gets contentious

                      It also has news about technical issues. The Shaw consulting group is recommending putting vent wells right in residential yards, but residents are hoping placement in the swamp or on the edges of residential areas might be adequate.

                      There's another scientist introduced who's going to give an independent opinion about the results of the 3D seismic survey for the state. This will be in addition to the opinion of the consultant hired by Texas Brine.

                      No mention of what happened to Itasca, mixin, but here is the Advocate article that reported about how their assessment about the cavern collapse differed from the first theory:
                      http://theadvocate.com/news/ascensio...-sinkhole-draw
                      BY DAVID J. MITCHELL
                      River Parishes bureau
                      December 26, 2012
                      [snip]
                      Hecox later said that Pettitt’s work has shown that part of the running theory on the formation of the sinkhole is likely incorrect.

                      Hecox and other scientists had initially theorized that the cavern had a “frack out” of brine that happened almost immediately before the sinkhole’s formation.

                      He told residents Tuesday that Itasca has persuaded him that the formation of the collapse zone leading to the sinkhole occurred through a slow-moving fracture of the sedimentary rocks along the salt dome during a several-month span.

                      Hecox said the tremors residents had been feeling in the months before the sinkhole’s emergence were likely part of this process...
                      That would tie some of the damages to homes in the area and the bubbling prior, (ignored by both TB and LDNR), directly to the cavern collapse, I think. I hope they are still involved with the analysis...
                      “‘i love myself.’
                      the
                      quietest.
                      simplest.
                      most
                      powerful.
                      revolution
                      ever.” ---- nayyirah waheed

                      Avatar: Franz Marc, Liegender Hund im Schnee 1911 (My posts are not intended as advice or professional assessments of any kind.)

                      Comment


                      • Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012

                        Although that has been my position all along, and this was not an instantaneous 'Frack out'; I do maintain that nonetheless it was a slow-motion 'Frack out'. It was a process that happened months before 5600 ft. below the earth, and only reached fruition on Aug. 3rd. It was a geologic episode of enormous proportions, and very instantaneous in geological terms.

                        There are also new developments that are old, yet no one seemed to catch it, until now.

                        TEXAS BRINE seems to be the fall guy and AGENT for OCCIDENTAL CHEMICAL CORPORATION!

                        OCCIDENTAL CHEMICAL CORPORATION OWNS THE ‘STINKHOLE’

                        Source: http://dnr.louisiana.gov/assets/docs...exas.Brine.pdf

                        Before anyone becomes upset, may I remind, these are Official Government Documents proving my assertions in their own words and in their own maps. I had nothing to do with these documents. Go to the source, please.

                        These were buried so deep, that it took me almost a year to find them again.

                        This whole affair has taken a very strange turn, and seems to twist in all directions, yet is supported by official government documents.

                        Is it true? Is truth stranger than fiction?
                        Last edited by freedomrox; February 11th, 2013, 07:44 PM. Reason: Non Relevant information

                        Comment


                        • Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2013

                          Louisiana Sinkhole: Answers are Forthcoming

                          Residents were literally diluged with information that took most off-guard, and having to view the videos to get even half the information that was imparted to them. This is truly understandable, considering the months of stone-walling, and jibber-jabber with no real answers. This is not the case now.

                          Finally an understanding of the Bayou Corne ‘Sinkhole’ may be at hand. Instead of boring you with a run down of each and every presentation right off the bat, let’s just introduce the Presenters, or their affiliations, and their results in a quick nutshell.

                          http://freedomrox.wordpress.com/2013...e-forthcoming/

                          Comment


                          • Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2013

                            http://theadvocate.com/news/5168999-...bigger-tuesday
                            Assumption sinkhole gets bigger Tuesday

                            By Bret H. McCormick

                            River Parishes bureau

                            February 12, 2013
                            “‘i love myself.’
                            the
                            quietest.
                            simplest.
                            most
                            powerful.
                            revolution
                            ever.” ---- nayyirah waheed

                            Avatar: Franz Marc, Liegender Hund im Schnee 1911 (My posts are not intended as advice or professional assessments of any kind.)

                            Comment


                            • Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012-2013

                              http://www.nbc33tv.com/news/your-sto...no-salve-for-e
                              Technology no salve for emotional wounds of Bayou Corne sinkhole evacuees
                              POSTED: Thursday, February 7, 2013 - 12:01am
                              UPDATED: Thursday, February 7, 2013 - 4:34pm

                              (NBC33 screecap from video at link)

                              Napoleonville, LA (NBC33) — An increase in meetings about the Bayou Corne sinkhole is not leading to an increase in confidence for people forced to evacuate their homes.

                              Assumption Parish residents listened to presentations from state officials for two and a half hours Wednesday night. They heard detailed presentations about seismic imaging, road detour contingencies, and vent flaring.

                              But for people from Bayou Corne, none of those details touched on the important issue.

                              "But I'm not getting a lot of benefit because no one's talking about the human side of the issue," said Norm Schewe...
                              Many residents are still camping as they were over the 2012 winter holidays:
                              http://theadvocate.com/home/4495619-...es-plan-for-rv
                              Sinkhole evacuees plan for RV Thanksgiving


                              BY DAVID J. MITCHELL

                              River Parishes bureau

                              November 23, 2012
                              0 Comments

                              PIERRE PART — Betty Thibodaux, her two brothers and their families lived next to one another, all in a row, on Sauce Piquante Lane in northern Assumption Parish’s Bayou Corne community....
                              Last edited by Emily; March 25th, 2014, 07:20 PM. Reason: Removed image link.
                              “‘i love myself.’
                              the
                              quietest.
                              simplest.
                              most
                              powerful.
                              revolution
                              ever.” ---- nayyirah waheed

                              Avatar: Franz Marc, Liegender Hund im Schnee 1911 (My posts are not intended as advice or professional assessments of any kind.)

                              Comment


                              • Re: Louisiana: Assumption Parish Bayou Corne Sinkhole 2012

                                The Advocate has a really good article today examining studies done prior to the Oxy3 collapse and they mention the Sandia article discussed in post 138 here:

                                Originally posted by Emily View Post
                                It turns out that the article cited in post #138 is available for public distribution. There isn't much more detail about what happened, but the diagram indicates that it was a Texas Brine cavern:



                                Here's a dome map. I think the currently collapsing Oxy3 is the one I circled in red, and Oxy1 is the one I circled in purple:
                                (Hooker 6,7,8 got renamed to Vulcan 1,2,3 at some point...which is also called Oxy 1,2,3 now, I'm assuming)


                                (Source for above map: http://ucmwww.dnr.state.la.us/ucmsearch/UCMRedir.aspx?url=http%3a%2f%2fdnrucm%2fucm%2fgrou ps%2fconservation%2fdocuments%2fooc%2f4282885.pdf. Hat tip to Freedomrox for pointing this out.)

                                Oxy3 is the westernmost brine well (BW) on the dome at the point that map was made, but in 1987 on page 33 in this document, Texas Brine says Hooker 6 was the only well in that westernmost area that had encountered an 'anomaly' - shale. (There is more on that on page 75.)

                                That doesn't agree with the 1997 article by Sandia scientists, since Hooker 6 is a little east of Hooker 8, (a.k.a. Vulcan/Oxy3). So I'm still unsure about which of those two caverns had some sort of incident prior to 1997.
                                Here is the Advocate story:
                                http://theadvocate.com/home/5218655-...lt-dome-factor
                                Shape of salt dome factor in sinkhole
                                Scientists say cavern created too close to edge of Napoleonville Dome

                                By David J. Mitchell
                                Advocate staff writer
                                February 24, 2013
                                It's worth reading the whole Advocate article, (good quotes from scientists in there), but I think it settles the question of what cavern Sandia was referring to in the 1995/1997 article - it was NOT the currently collapsing Oxy3. Oxy3/Hooker8 was mined after Oxy1/Hooker6, which sounds like the one described as the westernmost cavern (at the time) that was believed to have pierced through the side of the dome and rested against the supportive shale sheath.

                                So the question in my mind then was why mine a later cavern even further east??? This was the explanation:

                                "Cartwright added that Texas Brine officials initially believed they had drilled out of the salt dome and took steps to safely create the cavern above the shale. However, later testing proved Texas Brine never went through the edge of the salt formation, he said."
                                Last edited by Emily; February 25th, 2013, 10:32 PM. Reason: Oxy6 to Oxy1
                                “‘i love myself.’
                                the
                                quietest.
                                simplest.
                                most
                                powerful.
                                revolution
                                ever.” ---- nayyirah waheed

                                Avatar: Franz Marc, Liegender Hund im Schnee 1911 (My posts are not intended as advice or professional assessments of any kind.)

                                Comment

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