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CHINA: QINGHAI, PNEUMONIC PLAGUE (from ProMedMail.org, edited): 12 cases (with three deaths, one in critical condition, 218 in hospital)

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  • #16
    Re: CHINA: QINGHAI, PNEUMONIC PLAGUE (from ProMedMail.org, edited)

    I on the otherhand don't trust the Chinese MOH info.

    The second herdsman either contacted the same herd of animals which were transmitting pneumonic plague (a possibility, but just a possibility) or he was close, as in very close to one of the 11 members of this family who are now all currently ill.

    We are entering into the Twilight Zone when we see spontaneous outbreak of a disease which has the sign of Pandemic Flu, which occurs in the correct region, rural Central West China.

    As Niman is won't to say, "More information would be helpful."


    Folks, they quarantined the town. This was diagnosed, obscure as it is, quickly, and the response is appropriate.

    But I want to see more info.

    Of course, this is among the first times China has decided not to deceive. Congrat's China!

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    • #17
      Re: CHINA: QINGHAI, PNEUMONIC PLAGUE (from ProMedMail.org, edited)

      Originally posted by vinny View Post
      If this is airborn is there any point sealing off the village,after all people were possibly moving around before then.

      Imagin what will happen if the town is not sealed and it have more cases of pneumonic plague which inject an dissemination exodus by traveling and working peoples ...
      as globaly was done with the pandemic flu outbreak, leaving the people roaming with it everywhere worldwide ...

      Sure it is an freaky position for the sealed town populace, but they couldn't spread it further - the exact reason for which the quarantines are in the best help of the other non infected bilions.

      At the same time, it is obvious that the local biosecurity, logistic delivery and medical treatings measures in the sealed town must be oriented to heal, and help the population, until an eventual illness outbreak will be crushed.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: CHINA: QINGHAI, PNEUMONIC PLAGUE (from ProMedMail.org, edited)

        Originally posted by vinny View Post
        2 questions if anyone can answer them,thanks.


        If this is airborn is there any point sealing off the village,after all people were possibly moving around before then.


        Is there anyway H1N1 could mix with this virus...?
        The causative agent of plague (both pneumonic and bubonic) is a b a c t e r i a (Yersinia Pestis), an unicellular DNA-based organism, susceptible to a number of drugs (antibiotics), among them the most widely known is tetracyclins.

        Influenza A is caused by a vast category of pathogens: viruses, RNA-based parasites of cellular organisms.

        Clearly, no exchange of genetic material could happen between the two pathogens: bacteria and viruses.

        At least according the scientific data collected in last 100 years...

        Qinghai province is a ''hot spot'' in the Asia continent for many reasons: economic, geo-strategic, political, for the ethnic composition etc.

        Even though this incident appears as a ''genuine'' Yersinia Pestis outbreak, the peculiar position of the hot-spot could be of interest for further developments and to see the transparency and response by local authorities.

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        • #19
          Re: CHINA: QINGHAI, PNEUMONIC PLAGUE (from ProMedMail.org, edited)

          It is certainly possible I missed it, but was there any indication that they actually isolated Y. pestis? In the absence of that I remain a little apprehensive, realizing severe flu can be mistaken for plague. And this may be a gap in my knowledge, but I am only aware of pneumonic plague developing secondarily to bubonic plague. If the fatality is patient zero, wouldn't we expect plague in the lungs and the lymph nodes?
          Wotan (pronounced Voton with the ton rhyming with on) - The German Odin, ruler of the Aesir.

          I am not a doctor, virologist, biologist, etc. I am a layman with a background in the physical sciences.

          Attempting to blog an nascent pandemic: Diary of a Flu Year

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          • #20
            Re: CHINA: QINGHAI, PNEUMONIC PLAGUE (from ProMedMail.org, edited)

            I would assume that they identified Y. Pestis, or else they would have reported this as suspected plague. Once there has been a case of pneumonic plague, that can spread person to person, so the index case likely infected his neighbor. While it is possible (even likely) that the index case had bubonic plague which developed into pneumonic plague when left untreated, it is also possible that he did something that caused him to inhale plague bacteria (such as working with the hide of an infected animal) and develop primary pneumonic plague himself. The articles don't give enough information to determine which one is the case, but at this point that isn't terribly relevant.

            I am also a little puzzled that none of the articles mention preventative antibiotics. I thought standard procedure for people who were potentially exposed to pneumonic plague was to adiminister preventative antibiotics. That whole town, in addition to being quarantined, should be on antibiotics. That procedure should dramatically reduce the death toll as compared to quarantine alone.

            But I am impressed (so far) with the speed and transparency of the handling of this outbreak. If they had simply covered it up, it is doubtful the story would have gotten out.

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            • #21
              Re: CHINA: QINGHAI, PNEUMONIC PLAGUE (from ProMedMail.org, edited)

              Thanks, I hadn't considered the possibility of inhaling Y. pestis from a non-human source, similar to one of the ways Anthrax can be spread.
              Wotan (pronounced Voton with the ton rhyming with on) - The German Odin, ruler of the Aesir.

              I am not a doctor, virologist, biologist, etc. I am a layman with a background in the physical sciences.

              Attempting to blog an nascent pandemic: Diary of a Flu Year

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: CHINA: QINGHAI, PNEUMONIC PLAGUE (from ProMedMail.org, edited)

                That is another thing I didn't think of. While his actions could have aerosolized the bacteria in animal tissue, he could also have had contact with an animal that already had pneumonic plague (as a consequence of its bubonic plague) and was coughing up bacteria.

                Given that his profession has been stated as a herdsman, I assume his exposure involves an ill animal in some form. We may never know the details.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: CHINA: QINGHAI, PNEUMONIC PLAGUE (from ProMedMail.org, edited)

                  Originally posted by alert View Post
                  That is another thing I didn't think of. While his actions could have aerosolized the bacteria in animal tissue, he could also have had contact with an animal that already had pneumonic plague (as a consequence of its bubonic plague) and was coughing up bacteria.

                  Given that his profession has been stated as a herdsman, I assume his exposure involves an ill animal in some form. We may never know the details.
                  Very quick research only points to rodents and humans is being infected with Y. pestis. A rodent die-off would likely have been noticed. Are there other animals that can be infected?
                  Wotan (pronounced Voton with the ton rhyming with on) - The German Odin, ruler of the Aesir.

                  I am not a doctor, virologist, biologist, etc. I am a layman with a background in the physical sciences.

                  Attempting to blog an nascent pandemic: Diary of a Flu Year

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: CHINA: QINGHAI, PNEUMONIC PLAGUE (from ProMedMail.org, edited)

                    Xinhua Xining, August 3 (Xinhua Lu Shirley) reporter learned from the Health Department of Qinghai Province, Qinghai, Hainan Tibetan Autonomous Prefecture of the pneumonic plague outbreak occurred in deaths increased to 3 people today, the treatment of hospitalized cases of nine cases of isolation, of which one cases of critically ill , and one cases of patients with cough, sputum, chest pain symptoms, no new cases.

                    Qinghai Hainan Department of Health today received a state hospital designated pneumonic plague report Xinghai County added one cases of death, the deceased Dan Moses, M, 64-year-old. This is the second yesterday after the death of yet another case of pneumonic plague.

                    Plague in Qinghai Province has been on-site emergency command forces and expert medical treatment done to further enhance the added national clinical experts and clinical experts in the province to continue medical treatment. Provincial, state, and county levels in the areas of health professionals continue to carry out disinfection, pest, rodent control work, the continued implementation of the close contact tracing and quarantine management and seizure diagnosis.

                    Hainan, Qinghai Province Xinghai County, son of the state Division Town on July 30 found that pneumonic plague outbreak, a total of 12 cases of confirmed cases.

                    http://news.china.com/zh_cn/news100/.../15585725.html

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                    • #25
                      Re: CHINA: QINGHAI, PNEUMONIC PLAGUE (from ProMedMail.org, edited)

                      There was an article yesterday stating that the initial case'a dog had died evidently of plague and he buried it.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: CHINA: QINGHAI, PNEUMONIC PLAGUE (from ProMedMail.org, edited)

                        Originally posted by Rwilmer View Post
                        There was an article yesterday stating that the initial case'a dog had died evidently of plague and he buried it.
                        That would certainly do it. Just about all mammals can get plague. We had a ProMed posting involving an outbreak in Saudi Arabia caused by eating an infected camel, for example. His dog might have had bubonic plague which turned into pneumonic, and he could have had contact with the coughing dog.

                        Alternatively, during the burial of the dog, he could have aerosolized the bacteria in the body of the dead dog. I have no idea what bizarre rituals might be involved in the funeral of a dog in western China.

                        Unfortunately, as all 12 individuals were already ill when this was diagnosed as plague, I expect few of them to survive.

                        I belive that article that mentions the third death also mentions a 13th possible suspect case (which would indicate that all 12 previous cases are confirmed), although the translation is a little poor. I also think Dan Moses is not the name of the third death - that is the translator goofing up.

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                        • #27
                          Re: CHINA: QINGHAI, PNEUMONIC PLAGUE (from ProMedMail.org, edited)

                          There seems to be no new cases. The one that died today was from the group hospitalized as the last two deaths they took two away from the hospitalized list. "no new cases"

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                          • #28
                            Re: CHINA: QINGHAI, PNEUMONIC PLAGUE (from ProMedMail.org, edited)

                            Originally posted by Rwilmer View Post
                            There seems to be no new cases. The one that died today was from the group hospitalized as the last two deaths they took two away from the hospitalized list. "no new cases"
                            You might be right. What is the mention of "and one cases of patients with cough, sputum, chest pain symptoms" though?

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: CHINA: QINGHAI, PNEUMONIC PLAGUE (from ProMedMail.org, edited)

                              Qinghai pneumonic plague death toll to 3 at 22:25 on August 3, 2009 HONG 【Big Middle Small】 【Print】 0 users HONG Xining comment August 3 (Xinhua early morning) and lead to pneumonic plague today the death of a patient, making areas of Xinghai County, pneumonic plague death toll to 3.

                              According to local health department: As of 20:00 today, the epidemic no additional confirmed and suspected cases of plague. However, the existing 9 patients, 1 patients in a critical condition, one cases of patients with severe, the basic stability of the remaining patients, from the national and clinical experts in Qinghai Province to continue medical treatment.

                              http://finance.ifeng.com/roll/20090803/1033348.shtml

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                              • #30
                                Re: CHINA: QINGHAI, PNEUMONIC PLAGUE (from ProMedMail.org, edited)

                                Thank you for the answer. It was a description of the condition of another one of the 9 patients.

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